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required LD versus required MC to make it home ??



 
 
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  #51  
Old August 27th 10, 03:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
mattm[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 167
Default Getting rid of the bugs and gotchas!

On Aug 27, 1:36*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 8/26/2010 7:16 PM, akiley wrote:

I mean clear the winds totally in SeeYou then enter the official winds
aloft forecast. *Maybe SeeYou does a better job, I haven't really
tested this. *I just look at my IGC file from this Wednesday and the
winds were supposed to be 320 at 12kts in the 3000 to 6000 range. *At
a few points spanning several minutes, SeeYou came back with winds
from 160 at 2 kts. * But maybe this happens and is to be believed. *Or
I'm really bad a drawing circles with a glider. *Probably the later.


I always let Mobile fill in the blanks. It does a good job of measuring
the wind while circling, so I think it's better to use the actual wind
instead of a forecast wind; less trouble, too. I will sometimes change
the wind settings when I know I am flying into an area where the wind is
different from what Mobile has measured. This is usually the final glide
to the home airport, and since I haven't flown near home for the last
few hours, the wind it measured after the takeoff and the first couple
of thermals as I headed out on course may no longer be correct. I bought this used iPaq which was listed as a 3700 on the reciept from
Wings and Wheels. *Just out of warrantee. *The label is worn and
unreadable on the back. *Don't know of a software way to positively ID
the unit. *It uses the CF cards and an add-on sleeve adapter to hold
the CF card. *I have the slightly newer SeeYou Mobil ver 3.12. *I have
had lots of IGC files with broken track or perfectly straight lines or
both. *Also, I have to reboot my iPaq on a daily basis. *Not sure if I
replace the iPaq next or the GPS. *I did get an uninterrupted file
this wednesday on a 2.5 hr flight in the Cirrus.


Mobile for PDAs is a mature, stable program. These problems are almost
certainly hardware related. Can you borrow another Ipaq for a flight or
two? I just have the navBox called "Magnetic track over ground" at the top
center used as a heading indicator, even though it really is'nt.


Unless you are really in love with magnetic bearings, I suggest you
switch to "track over ground" to use True bearings instead.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz


I agree this may be a hardware problem. What are you using for a GPS
source?
It may be losing lock periodically when you bank.

-- Matt
Ads
  #52  
Old August 28th 10, 03:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
akiley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default Getting rid of the bugs and gotchas!

On Aug 27, 10:25*am, mattm wrote:
On Aug 27, 1:36*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:



On 8/26/2010 7:16 PM, akiley wrote:


I mean clear the winds totally in SeeYou then enter the official winds
aloft forecast. *Maybe SeeYou does a better job, I haven't really
tested this. *I just look at my IGC file from this Wednesday and the
winds were supposed to be 320 at 12kts in the 3000 to 6000 range. *At
a few points spanning several minutes, SeeYou came back with winds
from 160 at 2 kts. * But maybe this happens and is to be believed. *Or
I'm really bad a drawing circles with a glider. *Probably the later..


I always let Mobile fill in the blanks. It does a good job of measuring
the wind while circling, so I think it's better to use the actual wind
instead of a forecast wind; less trouble, too. I will sometimes change
the wind settings when I know I am flying into an area where the wind is
different from what Mobile has measured. This is usually the final glide
to the home airport, and since I haven't flown near home for the last
few hours, the wind it measured after the takeoff and the first couple
of thermals as I headed out on course may no longer be correct. I bought this used iPaq which was listed as a 3700 on the reciept from
Wings and Wheels. *Just out of warrantee. *The label is worn and
unreadable on the back. *Don't know of a software way to positively ID
the unit. *It uses the CF cards and an add-on sleeve adapter to hold
the CF card. *I have the slightly newer SeeYou Mobil ver 3.12. *I have
had lots of IGC files with broken track or perfectly straight lines or
both. *Also, I have to reboot my iPaq on a daily basis. *Not sure if I
replace the iPaq next or the GPS. *I did get an uninterrupted file
this wednesday on a 2.5 hr flight in the Cirrus.


Mobile for PDAs is a mature, stable program. These problems are almost
certainly hardware related. Can you borrow another Ipaq for a flight or
two? I just have the navBox called "Magnetic track over ground" at the top
center used as a heading indicator, even though it really is'nt.


Unless you are really in love with magnetic bearings, I suggest you
switch to "track over ground" to use True bearings instead.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)


- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarmhttp://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl


- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz


I agree this may be a hardware problem. *What are you using for a GPS
source?
It may be losing lock periodically when you bank.

-- Matt


It's a GlobalSat BR-355 which I think is referred to as a mouse style
GPS that plus into the bottom of my iPaq 3700. If it was always
loosing a signal I would suspect that, but I don't have a really
concrete set of errors that point to any one thing. Intermittent and
varied issues I would describe it as. These have included the iPaq
suddenly wanting to reformat my CF card, intermittant NavBox problems,
usually showing data not available. Log file not stopping after
landing, log file not starting at all. Daily reboots usually required
when SeeYouM does not load. Some of these problems could have been
the CF card sleeve which I replaced a few weeks back because I seems
to be getting good uninterrupted IGC files now. Today, I'm borrowing
a friends iPaq, trouble it I have to order an adapter cord so my mouse
GPS can plug into it. I think iPaq changed the plug in the bottom at
some point. ... akiley
  #53  
Old August 28th 10, 06:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,096
Default Getting rid of the bugs and gotchas!

On 8/28/2010 7:06 AM, akiley wrote:
It's a GlobalSat BR-355 which I think is referred to as a mouse style
GPS that plus into the bottom of my iPaq 3700. If it was always
loosing a signal I would suspect that, but I don't have a really
concrete set of errors that point to any one thing. Intermittent and
varied issues I would describe it as. These have included the iPaq
suddenly wanting to reformat my CF card, intermittant NavBox problems,
usually showing data not available. Log file not stopping after
landing, log file not starting at all. Daily reboots usually required
when SeeYouM does not load. Some of these problems could have been
the CF card sleeve which I replaced a few weeks back because I seems
to be getting good uninterrupted IGC files now. Today, I'm borrowing
a friends iPaq, trouble it I have to order an adapter cord so my mouse
GPS can plug into it. I think iPaq changed the plug in the bottom at
some point. ... akiley

I suspect an Ipaq with a built-in slot would be inherently more
reliable. The two I've used - 3830 and 2210 - had slots, and both worked
without problems. Let us know how the new iPaq works out.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

  #54  
Old August 28th 10, 08:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,224
Default Getting rid of the bugs and gotchas!

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 07:06:45 -0700, akiley wrote:



--
[email protected] | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #55  
Old August 30th 10, 03:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
akiley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default required LD versus required MC to make it home ??



Thank you everyone for all the input on this subject. It's been very
interesting to read these posts! I'm still digesting.

To recap, I'm a fairly new glider pilot with only 30 hours. But I
have spent a LOT of time with SeeYou Mobile in sim mode and with
flight sims, testing, reading trying to take it all in. It really
helps understanding the theory.

In real world, I'm currently staying within range of my primary
airport at all times. With a club Cirrus and not having formal cross
country training (yet), this is what I must do for now.

For the most part, I understand what everyone is talking about. To
me, looking at required MC as a way of seeing how much reserve energy
I have to make it home seems fairly straight forward and takes
everything into account as long as I make sure all parameters are
correct including safety altitude, bugs, winds aloft, polar and such.
I like it because I can be flying away from home base and it will work
without having to test by actually starting the final glide. For
example, if I'm 10 miles out and I see a value of 10MC required, I
know I can fly a substantially lower MC final glide and be sure of
making it home. For a cross check it's easy to also look at required
L/D versus achieved L/D especially as the final glide is in progress.
It's also easy to look at arrival height.

But I also like MC because it plays out in thermals, speed to fly and
is seems to be the theoretical basis of making forward progress in
soaring. Something I plan to use more and more as I progress.

akiley Adrian, Michigan
  #56  
Old August 30th 10, 05:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surfer![_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default required LD versus required MC to make it home ??

"akiley" wrote in message
...


Thank you everyone for all the input on this subject. It's been very
interesting to read these posts! I'm still digesting.

To recap, I'm a fairly new glider pilot with only 30 hours. But I
have spent a LOT of time with SeeYou Mobile in sim mode and with
flight sims, testing, reading trying to take it all in. It really
helps understanding the theory.

In real world, I'm currently staying within range of my primary
airport at all times. With a club Cirrus and not having formal cross
country training (yet), this is what I must do for now.


snip

Thank goodness you are staying in glide range. Does the SeeYou simulator
teach field landings?

  #57  
Old September 22nd 10, 07:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
PCool
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 99
Default required LD versus required MC to make it home ??


(Garmin is using GR Glide Ratio, not LD. The confusion comes to the fact
that a "glide ratio" relative to the air is not the same to glide ratio
relative to ground.
LD should be used for indicating glide ratio relative to air, and GR or Eff
for ground. But since most pilots don't care at all about the LD (air
relative efficiency) because when we are gliding we are flying toward a
ground point, then we all use either LD GR or EFF.
Old instrument with no GPS are using LD and this is not accounting for wind.
Even bigger confusion)

Months ago I did experiment using current efficiency averaged in last 90
seconds for calculating altitude arrivals (using lk8000, not seeyou).
During long glides it was very accurate.
Currently arrival altitudes are calculated using your MC setting, but if you
fall in sinking air and follow the glider's speed to fly indicator then you
will speed up and use a different MC at all effects.
So now I am experimenting what paraglider's are already using since time:
the "equivalent MC", which is based on your airspeed and polar.
In the end it is like using average efficiency.

Personally I think that it's all a matter of guessing, and the good old GR
or Eff is still the most simple and valuable parameter.

paolo

 




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