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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 15th 10, 11:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell
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Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

On 9/15/2010 12:19 PM, Andy wrote:
On Sep 15, 11:25 am, wrote:

We would probably have at east one pilot alive today if the FCC
approved those units earlier.

That seems to assign some blame to FCC.

Why would FCC be expected to approve an equipment for which no
approval application was made. Why would anyone have made an
approval application for an equipment which was not marketed for use
in USA and prohibited by the manufacture(s) from being used in USA.

For those that think the door will be open to import the older FLARM
units to US and use them without FCC approval, don't forget that the
unit's firmware has an embedded drop dead date. It would be very easy
for the next firmware cycle to inhibit operation for GPS locations in
USA.

Am I the only one that suspects a large part of the US PowerFLARM cost
is going towards a legal fund?


Can't answer that, but PowerFlarm has substantially more features than a
Flarm unit. For $1500, you get Flarm ($800), PCAS ($500 for MRX), and
ADS-B-in ($500?), plus stuff you don't get buying those things
separately: a nifty display, a single small package, and glider-friendly
software tying them together, and for $300 less than the individual
items. I don't see large part of the cost left over for a legal fund.

I anticipate getting one next year, but since I already have a
transponder and MRX, I'm in no great need, so I'll let the other pilots
be the early adopters of the (initially) scarce units. Then, I'll have
to think about selling my Becker and getting a Trig when ADS-B out
becomes more interesting.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

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  #22  
Old September 16th 10, 01:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Pat Russell[_2_]
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Posts: 73
Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

We would probably have at east one pilot alive today if the FCC
approved those units earlier.


Does FCC actually approve individual devices?

I know that they issue licenses and set standards for transmitters and
operators. And they have rules regarding the spectrum and
interference.

But do they actually test and approve/disapprove imported radio
designs?
  #23  
Old September 16th 10, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
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Posts: 2,396
Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

On Sep 16, 5:13*am, Pat Russell wrote:
We would probably have at east one pilot alive today if the FCC
approved those units earlier.


Does FCC actually approve individual devices?

I know that they issue licenses and set standards for transmitters and
operators. *And they have rules regarding the spectrum and
interference.

But do they actually test and approve/disapprove imported radio
designs?



Depends on the device. In this case definitely yes. The FCC does not
approve the design they approve the whole thing - the actual
implementation and packaging etc. including each change that affects
the RF part. Flarm will be working with one of several independent
test labs to help do this. Having had to put computer systems etc.
though compliance labs they have my sympathy...

Darryl
  #24  
Old September 16th 10, 08:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

On Sep 16, 5:13*am, Pat Russell wrote:
Does FCC actually approve individual devices?


Depends what you mean by individual devices. In case it was not clear
in the previous reply the final product design requires approval but
each individual device (unique serial number) does not. So the design
gets approved based on an application by the manufacturer and the
purchaser of an individual device does nothing except use it.

Andy
  #25  
Old September 16th 10, 10:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
M North
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Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

Thank you, Andy. This discussion is very helpful indeed.
My final question is this: if a foreign pilot brought her glider to
the US, would the FLARM installed in that glider cooperate in a gaggle
full of PFARMs? I would like to know the answer, regardless of who
would disapprove of such behavior.
  #26  
Old September 16th 10, 11:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

On Sep 16, 2:49*pm, M North wrote:
Thank you, Andy. *This discussion is very helpful indeed.
My final question is this: *if a foreign pilot brought her glider to
the US, would the FLARM installed in that glider cooperate in a gaggle
full of PFARMs? *I would like to know the answer, regardless of who
would disapprove of such behavior.


You would have to ask the supplier of your FLARM unit. The
documentation I have seen says the units will switch to the USA
allocated frequency and the communication protocols are reported to be
identical.

You should also note that the documentation for current FLARM units
includes a very clear prohibition against use in the USA. One way to
enforce that probibition would be to make the units inoperable in USA
by a firmware update although I have no information that FLARM intends
to do that.

I wonder what visiting pilots at the pre Worlds at Uvalde will be
using.

Andy



  #27  
Old September 17th 10, 12:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Smith
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Posts: 195
Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

Andy wrote:
You should also note that the documentation for current FLARM units
includes a very clear prohibition against use in the USA. One way to
enforce that probibition would be to make the units inoperable in USA


I guess the FLARM people don't care a lot whether you use the device in
the USA or not. The prohibition is purely a protection against liability
lawsuits. So if a pilot or one of his relatives should be insolent
enough and tries to start a lawsuit, they can simply point to that
prohibition and state that it's not their business.
  #28  
Old September 17th 10, 02:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Wayne Paul
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Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community


"John Smith" wrote in message ...
Andy wrote:
You should also note that the documentation for current FLARM units
includes a very clear prohibition against use in the USA. One way to
enforce that probibition would be to make the units inoperable in USA


I guess the FLARM people don't care a lot whether you use the device in
the USA or not. The prohibition is purely a protection against liability
lawsuits. So if a pilot or one of his relatives should be insolent
enough and tries to start a lawsuit, they can simply point to that
prohibition and state that it's not their business.


Or if US authorized users of RF frequency of the European FLARM report to the FCC that the units interfere with their systems. There are parts of the RF spectrum that are controlled by international treaty and other parts that are allocated by country or region. The frequency allocation between countries was also an issue for the early in the cell phone industry.

  #29  
Old September 17th 10, 04:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

On Sep 17, 6:28*am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:

Or if US authorized users of RF frequency of the European FLARM report to the FCC that the units interfere with their systems. *There are parts of the RF spectrum that are controlled by international treaty and other parts that are allocated by country or region. *The frequency allocation between countries was also an issue for the early in the cell phone industry..


If a "European" FLARM is brought to US, and auto frequency selection
has not been defeated, it should be expected to switch to the same
frequency as used for US PowerFLARM.

There would be no point at all in bringing a "European" FLARM to US
unless it did operate on the same frequency.

Andy

  #30  
Old September 17th 10, 04:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
cernauta
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Posts: 121
Default FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 08:06:34 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

If a "European" FLARM is brought to US, and auto frequency selection
has not been defeated, it should be expected to switch to the same
frequency as used for US PowerFLARM.


Or still, you can select the geographic area, and the associated
frequency, by fiddling in the setup menu (using the "flarmtool" pc
interface).

Aldo
 




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