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Glaze Ice



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 2nd 10, 04:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default Glaze Ice

On Feb 2, 7:38*am, Tom De Moor
wrote:
In article ,
says...



METAR EBOS 021550Z 22009KT 8000 FEW020 SCT032 01/M01 Q1017 R08/290095
TEMPO 3000 -SHSNRA BKN012=


OK sure - but one should surely reading something more into that temp
and dew point. *Too close for me. *What do others think?


SHSNRA

Showers Snow Rain.

In our club are now two camps: 1 person, convinced that dry snow will
not cause freezing ice and all the rest who don't know the differance by
sight between a cloud full of dry snow or freezing rain and who will
chicken out by not flying through.

I am with the rest ;-)

Where is the summer staying?

Tom De Moor


With nearly a lifetime of flying real IFR in light aircraft, I've
found almost all generalities about ice accumulating on aircraft to be
wrong on occasion. Ultimately, you get what you get. If you have a
well thought out escape route, you'll probably survive. If not.....

Examples:

Ice CAN accumulate in clear air. It's usually Graupel but can be just
very light supercooled mist. Neither block visibility enough to be
easily seen from a distance.

The kind of freezing rain described by the first poster is rare but
almost always fatal to an aircraft. As a result there are few 1st
person stories of encounters with freezing rain.

The only real ice removal strategy for aircraft is to find warm air -
FAST. De-Ice equipment just buys a little time. Simply recording
temperature layers while climbing has saved me several times.

Usually, but not always, if the air temperature is -10C or lower,
virtually all supercooled water droplets have already frozen out and
the resulting snow will just bounce off the airplane. I've seen
significant ice at -30C.

Icing is always worse over mountains.

It's amazing how much ice you can pick up flying through a cooling
tower plume.
  #12  
Old February 2nd 10, 06:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Tom De Moor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Glaze Ice

In article 138c6dc9-ee47-45c4-8033-6e8906aae222
@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com, says...

With nearly a lifetime of flying real IFR in light aircraft, I've
found almost all generalities about ice accumulating on aircraft to be
wrong on occasion. Ultimately, you get what you get. If you have a
well thought out escape route, you'll probably survive. If not.....



I am with you.

Concerning the accident of 02 jan (EBUL, OO-TRB) the PIC had 30 years of
VFR-experience but how much in marginal VFR, how much in icing
conditions? VFR-pilots - I am one- tend to be 'good weather'-pilots.

We get close to no prolonged icing conditions in our region, so
accidents happened when even carburrettor icing was not detected by the
pilot untill he smashed his (school)Cessna to the ground.

Not pointing a finger: it might happen to any privat pilot but the
person concerned will sure not feel good afterwards.

http://www.mobilit.fgov.be/data/aero...nts/AA-8-2.pdf

But sometimes it must be admitted that some errors or misconceptions are
very very hard to understand. On top of that: this is the age of you
tube and other video sites...

http://airsafety.info/wp/?p=138

'What's that beeping? I get the plane down quickly...'

Tom De Moor
  #13  
Old February 2nd 10, 08:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
et
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Glaze Ice


Ice CAN accumulate in clear air. *It's usually Graupel but can be just
very light supercooled mist. *Neither block visibility enough to be
easily seen from a distance.

The kind of freezing rain described by the first poster is rare but
almost always fatal to an aircraft. *As a result there are few 1st
person stories of encounters with freezing rain.


Let me relate an iceing story that happened to me. I was on a cross
country in my PA 140 across the cascades. The weather was clear, the
winds calm. The temp was well below freezing. As I let down on the
west side of the mountains I encountered scattered clouds with light
showers. The temp. was well above freezing. After landing at
Longview I pulled up to the fuel pump to top off the tanks for the
return flight. To my surprise the fuel tanks were covered in ice.
The fuel had retained the cold temps enough to freeze the light rain
showers contacting the tank area. I felt no loss of lift as the rest
of the wing was clear. I wondered what the outcome might have been
with a large leading edge tank.

Ed









  #14  
Old February 2nd 10, 10:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Anyolmouse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default Glaze Ice


"brian whatcott" wrote in message
...
I did an Oxford instrument ground school long ago.
One of the weather topics was glaze ice. This was described as

extremely
dangerous, in that supercooled rain could impact and flow to a glassy
ice layer over the wing in seconds, which tended to pull the aircraft
down pronto.

In the last three days, I actually witnessed an event. It was a ground
forecast of "freezing rain". It was devastating. As you know, most of
the US distributes power almost entirely on overhead lines.
In the local (SW Oklahoma) counties, there are trees quite close to
power lines. Tree branches sagged to the ground in minutes and the
majority shed limbs into the road and onto power lines before your

eyes.

Many power poles could not hold up the half-inch coat of ice on the
lines, in a moderate crosswind and splintered - often a half dozen in

a
row. One county (Harmon) estimated about 3 to 4 weeks to repair the

2000
or so power lines that were down on broken poles before electric power
could be restored there.

For people who are used to living in Tornado Alley and don't easily
shock - this was a new one on them! There was a rush on motor
generators. There was no gasoline to be had for a day or more after,

til
the generator sets were set up at strategic gas stations to serve huge
lines of customers.
Some small towns are reporting sewage farm pump failures, others say
went drinking water pump stations out.
The local AM radio station used for emergency reporting, went out

after
a while - its antenna was glazed, which mismatched the transmitter,
which then fried.

The city set up strategic industrial generator sets - of which the
smartest siting after the water and sewage utilities, was at a 24 hour
diner - where the utility crews could go to rest and eat.

Moral: If you fly into glaze ice, fly down or fly up, but fly OUT

quick
as you can!

Brian W


I was attending a AOPA sponsored CFI renewal clinic in Albuquerque
(1986) when an example was given of how fast clear ice could form on a
supercooled airframe in a very short time.

A DC-3/C-47 was landing in the Pacific Northwest. (Washington or Oregon)
They were clear of ice until inside of the outer marker. The ice formed
so fast that adding full power only slowed their sink rate. They crash
landed short of the runway and the rescue crew had to use fire axes to
get the flight crew out. The ice was over 1/4 inch thick over the entire
airplane.

Assuming a 120 mph approach speed and a distance between 3 to 4 miles
from the outer marker to the runway threshold the entire event took less
than two minutes.

I have been searching for information but have not found anything so
far. Since this was part of the course I wonder if anyone else might
recall the story?

--
A man is known by the company he keeps- Unknown

Anyolmouse

  #15  
Old February 2nd 10, 10:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Brian Whatcott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 915
Default Rogallo

Like me, You may have missed Rogallo's obit late last year.
He died near the first flight site in North Carolina.
How appropriate!
He gave his Rogallo patents to the Country at the time of Sputnik.

His design gave birth to hang-gliding, ultra lights, powered parachutes,
Light Sport Aircraft and a new birth of enthusiasm for flying (just) in
reach of the average person.

Francis Rogallo - 2009

Brian W
  #16  
Old February 2nd 10, 11:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Private
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 188
Default Rogallo


"brian whatcott" wrote in message
...
Like me, You may have missed Rogallo's obit late last year.
He died near the first flight site in North Carolina.
How appropriate!
He gave his Rogallo patents to the Country at the time of Sputnik.

His design gave birth to hang-gliding, ultra lights, powered parachutes,
Light Sport Aircraft and a new birth of enthusiasm for flying (just) in
reach of the average person.

Francis Rogallo - 2009

Brian W


Thank you for this posting, it motivated a search
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/05/us/05rogallo.html

more at
http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=h...64381002806979

Happy landings,


  #18  
Old February 3rd 10, 12:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Mark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default Glaze Ice

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:12:36 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:

Mark writes:

Wrong.

Buy a plane that has a de-icer. They are only $500,000
or so.


Deicing equipment protects you while you find your way out of icing
conditions. It does not allow you to fly through icing conditions indefinitely
with impunity.


Shutup, I'm a pilot, you're not. They even allowed me to skip the 40hrs
minimum rule.
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
  #19  
Old February 3rd 10, 02:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Dave[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default Glaze Ice

There are many stories like this, and they are to be heeded...

I listened to a pilot tell his story about landing with 1/4 inch of
ice on his Archer...

10 Years later, telling his story, his hands were shaking... He
oviously did everything right, and was very lucky he was within the
range of a long runway, as he was decending 300 fpm at full power!

Burned it on at 90 knots, no flaps.

I had no idea a Cherokee could fly at all with that much ice...

The speed with which it can accumulate is legendary.

Cheers!

Dave


On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:17:55 -0600, "Anyolmouse"
wrote:


"brian whatcott" wrote in message
m...
I did an Oxford instrument ground school long ago.
One of the weather topics was glaze ice. This was described as

extremely
dangerous, in that supercooled rain could impact and flow to a glassy
ice layer over the wing in seconds, which tended to pull the aircraft
down pronto.

In the last three days, I actually witnessed an event. It was a ground
forecast of "freezing rain". It was devastating. As you know, most of
the US distributes power almost entirely on overhead lines.
In the local (SW Oklahoma) counties, there are trees quite close to
power lines. Tree branches sagged to the ground in minutes and the
majority shed limbs into the road and onto power lines before your

eyes.

Many power poles could not hold up the half-inch coat of ice on the
lines, in a moderate crosswind and splintered - often a half dozen in

a
row. One county (Harmon) estimated about 3 to 4 weeks to repair the

2000
or so power lines that were down on broken poles before electric power
could be restored there.

For people who are used to living in Tornado Alley and don't easily
shock - this was a new one on them! There was a rush on motor
generators. There was no gasoline to be had for a day or more after,

til
the generator sets were set up at strategic gas stations to serve huge
lines of customers.
Some small towns are reporting sewage farm pump failures, others say
went drinking water pump stations out.
The local AM radio station used for emergency reporting, went out

after
a while - its antenna was glazed, which mismatched the transmitter,
which then fried.

The city set up strategic industrial generator sets - of which the
smartest siting after the water and sewage utilities, was at a 24 hour
diner - where the utility crews could go to rest and eat.

Moral: If you fly into glaze ice, fly down or fly up, but fly OUT

quick
as you can!

Brian W


I was attending a AOPA sponsored CFI renewal clinic in Albuquerque
(1986) when an example was given of how fast clear ice could form on a
supercooled airframe in a very short time.

A DC-3/C-47 was landing in the Pacific Northwest. (Washington or Oregon)
They were clear of ice until inside of the outer marker. The ice formed
so fast that adding full power only slowed their sink rate. They crash
landed short of the runway and the rescue crew had to use fire axes to
get the flight crew out. The ice was over 1/4 inch thick over the entire
airplane.

Assuming a 120 mph approach speed and a distance between 3 to 4 miles
from the outer marker to the runway threshold the entire event took less
than two minutes.

I have been searching for information but have not found anything so
far. Since this was part of the course I wonder if anyone else might
recall the story?


  #20  
Old February 3rd 10, 03:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.soaring,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Logajan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,958
Default Glaze Ice

Dave wrote:
OK...

So you are a pilot, and Mx is not?


Just FYI, you are responding to a troll that hangs out in
rec.aviation.piloting and many other groups. The perp can be IDed by
viewing all headers of a post and looking for an "X-Authenticated-User"
header, and if it has one, has the following value:

X-Authenticated-User: $$gwx18quhxz9-wu_g$qv3bkmank
 




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