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#11
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They embarrassed the rest of us. They didn't embarass me. I don't identify with them at all. I'm not without sympathy, but they screwed the pooch and now Shaeffer has to pay. Your pooch is getting it in the end as well from others flying in this manner. A few more of these and the Bushies will fill all our cylinders with sand. |
#12
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Reads like someone trying to cover his ass.
No cheap GPS? No backup radio? No idea where Washington DC is? No idea what a Blackhawk helicopter trying to communicate with them might mean? I do know that as a student, I performed every aspect of pre-flight and flight planning. My instructor would make a cursory inspection of the plane and my plan, but usually no more. If the narrative is accurate, the student did nothing but fly the plane. Exactly how was this student learning to do anything but point the plane in the general direction he wanted to go? This doesn't appear to have been originally intended as a training flight. Sadly, it was in more ways than one |
#13
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"Wizard of Draws" wrote in
message news:BEB80303.71037%jeffbTAKEOUTALLCAPS@TOEMAILwiz ardofdraws.com... If the narrative is accurate, the student did nothing but fly the plane. Exactly how was this student learning to do anything but point the plane in the general direction he wanted to go? He wasn't flying with a CFI. It wasn't a training flight. He was just a passenger manipulating the controls. --Gary |
#14
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
Without a sectional of that end of the country, I have difficulty appreciating the diversion. Could you describe it? DC area including ADIZ and P-40: http://www.aopa.org/images/whatsnew/.../03-1-063x.jpg Flight path: http://tinyurl.com/8ow44 They weren't trying to avoid P-40 (Camp David airspace NW of Washington). They were on a direct path to Lumberton, NC. Without more information, it's difficult to assign blame for the inability to communicate. Certainly, your hypothesis is one possible explanation, but I could think of others... Larry, this is the worst baiting attempt I've seen from you. What frequency do you think they requested first? Even if it wasn't a "standard" frequency, what frequency *should* the pilot have tuned during an intercept procedure? If *ALL* else fails, what frequency would you attempt to use? As with your earlier analogy, the Florida MAC had *nothing* in common with this issue. Of course, that's not true. If the C-150 had gotten closer to the White House, it would have been downed. Perhaps. The point remains the intercept pilots did not request nor were granted permission (authority) to open fire at any point in this scenario. Therefore, nobody had authority to shoot down the plane. Please cite the source of your assertion. Or is it just your guess? Several news stories reported what I said. Show me otherwise. Define "worked". The inability to establish communications certainly confirms that the system almost resulted in the death of two airmen. No, it didn't. Their negligence almost killed them. Again, this should not in any way be construed as any kind of support for the ADIZ, but I certainly wouldn't go flying around Nevada without knowing *exactly* where I should *not* be. Likewise, if you're not familiar with the DC area and the ADIZ procedures, do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor and stay well clear. (unfortunately, since this will probably bolster various alphabet soup agencies around DC). What is that supposed to mean? It plays into the hands of various security agencies that want a much more restrictive airspace around DC. You have provided no evidence that the C-150 pilots were at fault for the initial lack of communication. It's pretty clear the PIC was negligent, but he deserves to be heard before conclusions are drawn. Oh, please. Read their own statement: "...our radio had been working during the flight, which we know, because we were able to monitor other aircraft communications... [After turning westbound] we were then able to establish two-way radio communication on the original emergency frequency..." Their radio suddenly worked after they turned 90 degrees and visually verified they'd screwed the royal pooch. I'm not buying the idea that they could not raise ANYbody on 121.5. Not in this area. Even *IF* the Blackhawk crew had accidentally turned off that frequency, I guarantee either the Citation, the F-16s, Potomac TRACON or one of the many aircraft in the area listening to guard on COM2 would have heard and responded. I doubt you're naive enough to honestly think *all* of the intercept aircrew and everybody else in the area were not listening to 121.5. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415 ____________________ |
#15
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"John T" wrote in message
... Their radio suddenly worked after they turned 90 degrees and visually verified they'd screwed the royal pooch. I'm not buying the idea that they could not raise ANYbody on 121.5. Not in this area. Even *IF* the Blackhawk crew had accidentally turned off that frequency, I guarantee either the Citation, the F-16s, Potomac TRACON or one of the many aircraft in the area listening to guard on COM2 would have heard and responded. I doubt you're naive enough to honestly think *all* of the intercept aircrew and everybody else in the area were not listening to 121.5. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415 ____________________ Somone over on r.a.student posted that there may have been an ELT inerfering with 121.5 in the area at the time. FWIW, Jay Beckman PP-ASEL Chandler, AZ |
#16
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"Jens Krueger" wrote in message ... Larry Dighera wrote: We agreed that Jim, as the pilot in command, would supervise the flight while Troy would fly the airplane, which he did during the entire flight. Huh? Is 'Jim' a CFI? Thought the Troy guy was a student pilot? Jim is not a CFI and Troy is a student pilot. What's your point? |
#17
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Corky Scott wrote:
The two pilots who flew their Cessna 150 into the Washington ADIZ have issued a statement explaining what happened. Alternate URL http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050520/205544.html?.v=1 George Patterson "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got no clothes on - and are up to somethin'. |
#18
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"John T" wrote in message
... It plays into the hands of various security agencies that want a much more restrictive airspace around DC. Then let 'em have it... Pick a particular distance -- say 20 miles -- and put a ring of lasers or search lights pointing straight up... ALL aircraft are prohibited from this area... No Congress-critters coming into there, no presidential helicopters, NOTHING... Make EVERYONE have to land somewhere outside of this 20 mile radius... While we're at it, let's ban ALL motor vehicular traffic within this 20 mile radius also... Some might say that the government would grind to a hault... AND THIS WOULD BE A BAD THING??? Maybe even build a wall around the city to keep all the crooks inside the city? |
#19
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John T wrote:
Set the frequency in COM1, but transmit on COM2? In a Cessna 150? Maybe, but twin NAV/COMs are pretty rare. I'm sorry, but as much as I would like to see the ADIZ disappear and make my flying life easier, these guys are not who I want to share my airspace with if: a) they can't figure out they're 15 miles inside restricted airspace; b) they don't alter course after interception; c) they can't figure out they set the frequency in COM1 but are transmitting on COM2 (speculation). In addition to that, there are several excellent VORs that keep you out of the ADIZ *and* P-40. Just head for Westminster, then Frederick, then a dogleg to Linden, and you're around everything. It's difficult not to be hard on these two "pilots". They didn't realize they were miles into restricted airspace, couldn't properly work their radios, took great pains to avoid prohibited airspace a fraction the size of the ADIZ, but did not opt to completely avoid the ADIZ by moving East a few more miles. Or West. They selected a course pretty much right in the middle of the danger arc. At *best* they showed extremely poor judgement. At worst, they shouldn't be flying with navigation skills so poor they had to turn 90 degrees to visually identify their position. The FAA agrees. Schaeffer is charged with violations of FARs 61.57(a), FAR 91.103, FAR 91.13(a), FAR 91.131(a)(1), FAR 73.83, FAR 91.133(a), FAR 91.139(c), and FAR 99.7. They've revoked his certificate. He can try to get it back after a year. He's appealing. George Patterson "Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got no clothes on - and are up to somethin'. |
#20
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("Grumman-581" wrote)
[snip] Maybe even build a wall around the city to keep all the crooks inside the city? Escape from DC - the movie. This one has legs... Montblack |
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