Growth in soaring

On Mar 16, 3:32 pm, "Ramy" wrote:
I don't think that casinos, watercrafts or off road vehicles compete
with soaring. The decline in soaring is perfectly correlated with the
birth of hang gliding and later paragliding. I am often puzzled about
the amount of effort put into trying to recruit youth into soaring.
Our true market is the middle age and not youth. I think it is largely
a waste of efforts to try to attract youth. It is very hard to compete
with hang gliding and paragliding, which appeals much more to
youngsters who are actually interested in aviation due to their low
cost, simplicity and quick learning. I dare to assume that most
youngsters which are attracted to gliders are those who are mostly
interested in a career in aviation.
The true market is middle aged power pilots and veterans hang/para
glider pilots who are ready to expand their horizon and can afford
the cost and time involved. I don't think enough effort is given to
market our sport to this segment, especially not to the hang gliding
and paragliding world (where I came from). Just my humble opinion.

Ramy

All,

Just a few thoughts on the subject.

I too come from the Hang Gliding community and agree with Ramy's
comments. In the late 70s when I began flying HGs the average age was
approximately 22 (I was 19), when I retired from HGs seven years ago
the average age was approximately 48! It's an old and varied story in
both sports HG and Sailplanes.

I moved into the Sailplane world because "I love the act of soaring" I
have ever since the first time I observed a Hang Glider in 1977
thermal up to cloud base, turn down wind and go XC, I bought a Hang
Glider one week later. Many years later, when my body began to rebel
(numb hands, back problems) while hanging in a harness for hours at a
time it lost the allure. Now I fly Sailplanes and the passion for
soaring is stronger than ever, comfortable and cool looking cockpit,
great electronic toys and fantastic performance with unlimited soaring
possibilities. This is candy to all Hanglider pilots, if you put one
in a modern or semi-modern cockpit his eyes will light up and "bingo"
you have a hooked, life time member, read active & engaged. The
passion for soaring (remember they survived 20 or 30 years of
Hangliding) and intuitive thermalling skills these guys can bring to
your club is quite contagious, I've observed this first hand as I'm
sure many of you have too at your clubs.

It's just one piece of the story but I think we're missing the boat by
not actively tapping into this rich source of potential and prolific
Sailplane pilots whose demographics are a marketers dream for this
sport. This group is aging and perhaps won't be avaliable down the
road but if you bring them in now they will be involved the until they
reluctantly must retire from soaring.

Rick -21

After listening to recruiting strategies for several decades, it seems they
always follow fall into predictable generalizations. "Somewhere out there
exists a large group of people who, if they just knew of us, would break
down the doors to start flight training." The potential groups are usually
thought to be other pilots of airplanes or hang gliders. Sometimes it's
"get 'em young". It's always a simple answer that magically solves the
recruiting problem.
When we look at the present population of gliders pilots we see a bunch of
individuals, few of whom fall into any definable group. The search for a
'magic' recruiting solution that we haven't been able to find for 80+ years
seems to have failed. I think the reality is that we recruit new glider
pilots one-by-one. They can be from any demographic.

I'd suggest that we look closely at those we fail to recruit since failure
is often the best teacher. When you talk to them their first answer will be
"it costs too much". That's a standard, easy answer and, while it can be
true, it's usually not the real reason they are walking away. Press further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have to
listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint. What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond selling
a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone, anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis. An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a long
way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels





"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...

Some SSA chapters have had very successful, on-going youth programs.
Youth involvement is structured on a value-added, performance based
program.
http://www.texassoaring.org Youth Program (about 35 total involved Feb
2006, including a then 17-year old tow pilot)
http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/ Junior program (some good video
links in RAS a while back)

Add to that, the Greater Boston Soaring Club. So popular that there is a
waiting list for the youth program. See http://soargbsc.com - click on
"Junior Program".

Tony V.

snip
What every glider operation needs is a designated "official
greeter".
This person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a
real job.
/snip

As a relative newcomer to the sport, I say the above is very good
advice.

Most of the places I've visited have been very friendly, but when I
decided to take lessons in 2003 and reported to the nearest soaring
school, I felt like I was interrupting them, even when I announced I
wanted to come back for more! (The rest of the training experience was
great.)

-ted/2NO

Frank Whiteley wrote:
I think the mystique of flying is somewhat diluted. When I was young,
few of my peers had ever been in an airplane, but we lived close to
significant aviation activity, so our imaginations and dreams of
flying were ever present. Today, a lot of youngsters have jetted
across the country or the oceans. What do they do? Play games, close
the window shades, sleep, or watch movies. Few look out the window to
try and figure out where they are or watch the changing clouds or even
the auroras. A few I've spoken with didn't consider it a particularly
pleasant experience, but a means to get to whatever was at the end of
the flight. Hardly inspiring.

And who can blame us? I'm one of those guys in his 20s that everybody
seems to despair about attracting, I've been soaring since last summer and
enjoying every moment, and I hate airliners with a deep passion.

When I was little I loved to fly commercially. I even got to meet the
captain and sit in the cockpit of a DC-10. (Good luck trying that one
today!) But as I grew out of the child-sized seats, realized just how tiny
and annoying those windows are, got more and more tired of the growing
stupidity of airport security, and just racked up a lot of commercial
flying, I got tired of the whole thing. Flying is great, but being stuffed
into a seat that's three sizes too small, packed into an aluminum tube
like sardines with no control over your destiny for hours, you can see how
it could be considered unpleasant.

Airliners are the busses of air travel. You find people who are fascinated
with trains, but hardly ever with busses. I think that if you want to
attract people to soaring, avoid comparisons with airliners as much as
possible. Other than the fact that both involve being high above the
ground, they have almost nothing in common.

I think there's no problem generating mystique around soaring, in fact I
think there may be a little too much of it. People need to know that it's
something that *they* can do themselves, not just superhuman masters of
the air. Most people probably know where their local airport is and have
some idea of how to procure an airplane ride if they felt like it, but how
many people know where their nearest glider operation is located? How many
realize that they could start learning as early as the next weekend and
they could be flying solo in just a couple dozen flights?

Maybe I'm subconsciously transferring my pre-soaring thoughts onto the
public at large, but that's how I see it.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

Bill Daniels wrote:


seems to have failed. I think the reality is that we recruit new glider
pilots one-by-one. They can be from any demographic.

I'd suggest that we look closely at those we fail to recruit since failure
is often the best teacher. When you talk to them their first answer will
be
"it costs too much". That's a standard, easy answer and, while it can be
true, it's usually not the real reason they are walking away.

Bill, i agree with most what you are saying, except that. The clubs in
France have tried a lot to solve the problem using the techniques you
describe below. They have websites, phones, people try to be friendly,
gliderports try to be nice, etc. etc.

But the absolutely *most* important reason why they don't recruit, is that
it is too expensive in time and money. There are people having money but not
time, people having time but not money, but people having both are mostly
retirees, and experience shows that, contrary to what has been said by
other posters, gliding is *not* a sport for retirees.

The reason why it is too expensive is because gliders and towing are too
expensive, period. In clubs here everything else is basically ensured by
volunteers and is gratis.

Press
further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have
to listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near
the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint.
What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond
selling a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone,
anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis. An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a
long way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels

Michael Ash wrote:

the air. Most people probably know where their local airport is and have
some idea of how to procure an airplane ride if they felt like it, but how
many people know where their nearest glider operation is located? How many
realize that they could start learning as early as the next weekend and
they could be flying solo in just a couple dozen flights?

What about saying the truth to young people? They could be flying solo after
a whole season generally, which is a huge personal investment.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

On Mar 17, 10:20 am, Michel Talon wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:
the air. Most people probably know where their local airport is and have
some idea of how to procure an airplane ride if they felt like it, but how
many people know where their nearest glider operation is located? How many
realize that they could start learning as early as the next weekend and
they could be flying solo in just a couple dozen flights?

What about saying the truth to young people? They could be flying solo after
a whole season generally, which is a huge personal investment.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

Depends on location. What I tell a prospective pilot is to train
during the winter so they'll be ready to soar come spring. If they
wait until spring, it's much harder to reserve the gliders and
instructors.

Frank Whiteley

Michel Talon wrote:
Michael Ash wrote:

the air. Most people probably know where their local airport is and have
some idea of how to procure an airplane ride if they felt like it, but how
many people know where their nearest glider operation is located? How many
realize that they could start learning as early as the next weekend and
they could be flying solo in just a couple dozen flights?

What about saying the truth to young people? They could be flying solo after
a whole season generally, which is a huge personal investment.

Certainly I wouldn't advocate anything less than total honesty. But
nothing says you can't present things in a good light.

In this case, tell them that it could take them much less time. I'm
probably abnormal due to excess free time and prior aviation experience,
but it took me two months to solo. Even if it doesn't, "a whole season" is
much less than a year. And even if it takes you a long time, flying with
an instructor can be just as fun (sometimes more fun) than flying alone.

It can be a long investment but with a good instructor and the right
attitude it doesn't have to be a difficult one. People put in similar
amounts of effort learning to ride a bicycle, rollerblade, drive a car, or
run a long race.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

I think that is nonsense. As long as youngsters can afford to go paragliding
(did you ever look into the cost of paragliding?) or skiing, money isn't the
problem.

"Michel Talon" wrote in message
...
But the absolutely *most* important reason why they don't recruit, is that
it is too expensive in time and money. There are people having money but
not
time, people having time but not money, but people having both are mostly
retirees, and experience shows that, contrary to what has been said by
other posters, gliding is *not* a sport for retirees.

The reason why it is too expensive is because gliders and towing are too
expensive, period. In clubs here everything else is basically ensured by
volunteers and is gratis.

Press
further
and you hear more truthful reasons. They aren't flattering but you have
to listen.

"This place is a dump". "Why would I want to hang around here?" is near
the
top of the list. When viewed in that light, you have to admit that most
airports are at best industrial slums. Gliderports seem to be the worst.
Why is it that almost every gliderport is at the end of a long
washboarded
dirt road? Try spiffing up the place with some paint and landscaping.

"It's not too friendly around here", is another often heard complaint.
What
every glider operation needs is a designated "official greeter". This
person is probably the most important on the field. Make it a real job.

"You guys are hard to find", is a third. My experience is that if the
operation has a phone, it rings three or four times an hour with people
asking for information about gliding. Usually, these calls end up on an
answering machine. Even at commercial operations with a staff, the
person
answering calls sometimes has little real interest in soaring beyond
selling a ride. With simple techniques like call forwarding, anyone,
anywhere can
take those calls. Get club members to take calls on a rotating basis.
An
informed, enthusiastic human voice answering questions goes a long way to
getting a new member.

These are just three ideas, but implemented together, they could go a
long way toward a turnaround.

Bill Daniels

I agree with you Bert.

I came into the sport in 2003 after a long "career" in skydiving. The
long-term participation costs are comparable; the cost to get licensed
to "fly solo" is roughly the same; and while the cost of owning your
own high quality equipment is much higher in gliding, the ongoing
costs of skydiving are higher (a single weekend of jumping in the
early 90s cost me about $250 in jump tickets alone). I had many
friends, wearing all color of collars from pool cleaners to college
professors, who didn't think twice about spending $10-$15,000 per year
on their sport, for the simple reason that they loved it.

So I don't buy the expense argument. Sure, it's a factor. But the
expense of skydiving, which I believe has exceeded the rate of
increase of gliding, has not stopped its membership rolls from
steadily increasing the last two decades.

I, personally, do not believe there's enough marketing. I lived in
Southern Arizona for 13 years and never heard of Arizona Soaring Inc
(Estrella) until I looked for a place to take instruction. Turf, on
the other side of Phoenix, advertised glider rides on a local radio
station, but never mentioned instruction.

Do I have the answer? No. But like the days when I was excited about
skydiving, I share my joy of soaring with whoever will listen (and a
few who won't , and shamelessly plaster my office walls with photos
of my daughter sitting in my glider.

-ted/2NO