Growth in soaring

Yes, all good and valid points, and precisely the reason why I also
switched from HG to sailplanes. And the cost per XC mile is indeed
lower. But the overall cost of owning a half decent glider and paying
for aerotows is still a magnitude compare to HG IMHO. There are many
good reasons to switch from HG to sailplanes, but cost isn't one of
them...

Ramy

On Mar 27, 4:52 am, "Ron Gleason" wrote:
Eric, many of your points are valid and some of the reasons I switched
last year to sailplanes from HG.

When I go flying in my sailplane I fly and typically am able to soar
95+% of the time and 2/3's of the time I am able to do some XC. My
percentage of flying, soaring and XC in my HG was 50%. If I consider
the time invested in trying to fly it is cheaper, in the long run, to
fly sail planes. The number of days I can fly and fly safely is much
greater.

I have also introduced a few HG pilots to sailplanes and when
explaining the minimal costs of the club here in UT they are amazed at
how cheap it is per hour of flying!

Regarding numbers for HG, my last HG cost me ~$13,000 (list price at
1.32 for the euro is $16,950) and provides a 20/1 glide and a ~110 FPM
sink rate. All carbon construction, except for dacron sail, 14.6
meter span and has spoilers and flaps for controls! Our competition
system and format is very similar to sailplane and the majority of
time we land back at the home field. Most HG competitions are held in
the flat lands and aerotow with ultralights is the ticket! In 2006
the world championships were held in FL, right down the road from
Seminole where the US Seniors are held, and we averaged 85-120 mile
triangle flights per day.

Just wanted to shed some light on the current technology of HG's. I
agree that sailplane clubs should be aware of the local HG and PG
clubs, make friends with them and be sure to educate them low cost of
sail plane flying.

Ron Gleason

Ramy, we can agree to disagree. I just hope I am able to achieve a
tenth of what you have done with sail planes.

Another advantage with sail planes is the ability to join a club, in
most areas, and have access to ships without having to purchase your
own equipment.

Soaring season is just starting here in UT, well the tow facilities
are just opening up!

Happy soaring

Ron Gleason

Oh, one more thing: the pilot's wife is so pleased that he now makes it
home in time for dinner!

I can relate to that :-)

Based on a conversation with a former hang glider pilot that was
spending less by soaring in a sailplane, flying more, and enjoying it
more. And it was only a Ka-6e that he was flying.

For me, in the Northeast US, a day of hang gliding meant a multi-hour
drive (one way), and then a long hike to the launch site - it was an all
day affair. Because we have trees everywhere, launch site usability on a
given day was often limited by the wind direction. Trekking to the
launch site and then not flying got old after a while (OK, it took a
couple of decades :-) ).

I'm very happy flying my LS6 but nothing can replace flying from the top
of a mountain of launching from a cliff (very different on a calm day
than on a windy day). I miss it sometimes.

Tony V.

Tony Verhulst wrote:

Oh, one more thing: the pilot's wife is so pleased that he now makes
it home in time for dinner!

I can relate to that :-)

Based on a conversation with a former hang glider pilot that was
spending less by soaring in a sailplane, flying more, and enjoying it
more. And it was only a Ka-6e that he was flying.

For me, in the Northeast US, a day of hang gliding meant a multi-hour
drive (one way), and then a long hike to the launch site - it was an all
day affair. Because we have trees everywhere, launch site usability on a
given day was often limited by the wind direction. Trekking to the
launch site and then not flying got old after a while (OK, it took a
couple of decades :-) ).

I'm very happy flying my LS6 but nothing can replace flying from the top
of a mountain of launching from a cliff (very different on a calm day
than on a windy day). I miss it sometimes.

Sounds like someone should also own a SparrowHawk and some bungey cord!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

One often cited reason for the decline is cost. But if cost was so
central it would also impact aviation in general. Yet the number of
people professionally employed in flight traing has increased from
under 11,000 in 1998 to over 14,000 in 2004, an increase of 27%
(http://www.census.gov/epcd/susb/2001/us/US611512.HTM). Consequently,
I don't think that cost is a detriment any more today than it was 10
years ago.

Personally, I think there are simply more recreational opportunities
competing for the same people, and they will chose the option that is
most convenient. GA grows because it is very easy to find a commercial
operator who will train you how to fly. Compare that to gliding (worse
for soaring). People in large metropolitan areas have to spend a full
day, at a minimum, to get glider training (providing that they are
lucky enough to be within a 2-3 hour drive of a glider site with
training).

Tom

GA isn't growing either. The number of student pilot licenses issued has
dropped over 20% in the last few years. One of the leading flight schools
in the Twin Cities (Wings) has just closed as a result.

Mike Schumann

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 16, 11:28 am, "fred" wrote:
A question often asked is "Why has the glider activity declined?" In
1975 we would make about 150 flights on a Sat & Sun. Nothing like that
now but we had our best year 2006 in a long time. The decline (I
believe) is the competition for disposable time Vegas is many times
larger, Indian Casinos abound. Water craft, off road vehicles etc all
compete.
A well known ride operator told me that 1800gliderrides expected to
sell FOUR MILLION in rides in 2007. All sold on the internet. They
have no operations of their own, but have about 900 domain names, most
of them the same. USE CAUTION. fred

One often cited reason for the decline is cost. But if cost was so
central it would also impact aviation in general. Yet the number of
people professionally employed in flight traing has increased from
under 11,000 in 1998 to over 14,000 in 2004, an increase of 27%
(http://www.census.gov/epcd/susb/2001/us/US611512.HTM). Consequently,
I don't think that cost is a detriment any more today than it was 10
years ago.

Personally, I think there are simply more recreational opportunities
competing for the same people, and they will chose the option that is
most convenient. GA grows because it is very easy to find a commercial
operator who will train you how to fly. Compare that to gliding (worse
for soaring). People in large metropolitan areas have to spend a full
day, at a minimum, to get glider training (providing that they are
lucky enough to be within a 2-3 hour drive of a glider site with
training).

Tom




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Schumann wrote:
GA isn't growing either. The number of student pilot licenses issued has
dropped over 20% in the last few years. One of the leading flight schools
in the Twin Cities (Wings) has just closed as a result.

Mike Schumann


Of course. People practising such activities tend to be wealthier than
the average, and so sincerely believe that cost is not a problem. They
are completely overlooking the fact that they belong to an extremely
small minority, and that for the vast majority of people, aviation
activities are completely cost forbidden.

--

Michel TALON

Michel Talon wrote:
Mike Schumann wrote:
GA isn't growing either. The number of student pilot licenses issued has
dropped over 20% in the last few years. One of the leading flight schools
in the Twin Cities (Wings) has just closed as a result.

Mike Schumann


Of course. People practising such activities tend to be wealthier than
the average, and so sincerely believe that cost is not a problem. They
are completely overlooking the fact that they belong to an extremely
small minority, and that for the vast majority of people, aviation
activities are completely cost forbidden.


The vast majority of people can't afford second homes either, but that
business has boomed in the US in recent years.


Shawn

The vast majority of people can't afford second homes either, but that
business has boomed in the US in recent years.

Shawn


Ha!!, maybe we need crooked mortgage lenders to run glider schools
It ain't about the money for the boomer crowd...and I hold out hope as
their knees start to creak more they may become a better source of
newbies. Look at the HG crowd, without them wearing out their landing
gears, soaring would really be hurting for new members. I think the
PG crowd also has potential to be the gateway into sailplanes as
well...but a few years off for that group still.

wrote:
The vast majority of people can't afford second homes either, but that
business has boomed in the US in recent years.

Shawn


Ha!!, maybe we need crooked mortgage lenders to run glider schools

I had that thought too.


It ain't about the money for the boomer crowd...and I hold out hope as
their knees start to creak more they may become a better source of
newbies. Look at the HG crowd, without them wearing out their landing
gears, soaring would really be hurting for new members. I think the
PG crowd also has potential to be the gateway into sailplanes as
well...but a few years off for that group still.

I think we would do well to create the dogma that that is the normal
progression of things in the soaring world.


Shawn