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#11
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flaps again
On Jan 1, 1:23 am, Denny wrote:
On Dec 30, 9:38 pm, Al wrote: I love the manual flaps in my Cessna 172E Al SFF Spokane, WA Kobra wrote: Flyers, First, as a reminder, some may recall that I had unwittingly landed one day in Williamsburg, VA without the flaps. I didn't notice they had not deployed until my next pre-flight when I found them INOP. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ya know, flaps are not the only way to land... Once you have mastered the basics and gotten the rating, you need to keep expanding your zone of comfort... Try some half flap landings, followed by quarter flap landings, followed by no flap landings... Cross wind landings... And on a light wind day emphasis, LIGHT do a downwind landing and a downwind takeoff... The aircraft will feel different scary different for some and the sight picture out the windshield will be different... All of these will be learning experiences that will increase your zone of comfort in handling the plane in the future... The major difference between Joe Pilot you and me and some hotshot airshow or military pilot is that they have worked their zone of comfort up to having the aircraft on the very edge of 'out of control... Notice I am not advocating doing dangerous things, but simply, stepwise, to increase your zone of comfort inside of the aircrafts performance envelope... denny Don't you have to demonstrate flapless, short field and normal landings as part of you certificate? Cheers |
#12
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flaps again
On Jan 1, 2:45 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Kobra" wrote in message ... I kind-of feel vindicated that another pilot had the same mild distractions in the pattern, was setting his flaps as always and never noticed at each of three changes that no flaps what-so-ever were being provided. You shouldn't, it really just indicates both of you have a problem. Transitioning from 0 to 30/40 degrees flaps changes the pitch and trim handling on a 150, 152, 172, 177, 182 so much - if you can't sense the difference, you really need to spend a LOT more time with the airplane. Too right! I can't believe he could not feel the difference in the plane as flaps extend. You can also feel vibration and hear the motor in all the SE Cessnas I've flown. Is this another simmer? If not I agree he really needs some quality training. Cheers |
#13
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flaps again
Vaughn Simon wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message news:2a8f80a4-d43b-4daf-b9c8- Don't you have to demonstrate flapless, short field and normal landings as part of you certificate? Not flapless. I had to. |
#14
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flaps again
"WingFlaps" wrote in message news:2a8f80a4-d43b-4daf-b9c8- Don't you have to demonstrate flapless, short field and normal landings as part of you certificate? Not flapless. Vaughn |
#15
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flaps again
B A R R Y wrote:
Vaughn Simon wrote: "WingFlaps" wrote in message news:2a8f80a4-d43b-4daf-b9c8- Don't you have to demonstrate flapless, short field and normal landings as part of you certificate? Not flapless. I had to. I didn't and a look at the PTS standards doesn't show it as a requirement. IV. TAKEOFFS, LANDINGS, AND GO-AROUNDS ! A. Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb (ASEL and ASES) ! B. Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! C. Soft-Field Takeoff and Climb (ASEL) ! D. Soft-Field Approach and Landing (ASEL) ! E. Short-Field (Confined Area—ASES) Takeoff and Maximum Performance Climb (ASEL and ASES) ! F. Short-Field Approach (Confined Area—ASES) and Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! G. Glassy Water Takeoff and Climb (ASES) ! H. Glassy Water Approach and Landing (ASES) ! I. Rough Water Takeoff and Climb (ASES) ! J. Rough Water Approach and Landing (ASES) ! K. Forward Slip to a Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! L. Go-Around/Rejected Landing (ASEL and ASES) |
#16
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flaps again
In rec.aviation.student Gig601XLBuilder wrote:
B A R R Y wrote: Vaughn Simon wrote: "WingFlaps" wrote in message news:2a8f80a4-d43b-4daf-b9c8- Don't you have to demonstrate flapless, short field and normal landings as part of you certificate? Not flapless. I had to. I didn't and a look at the PTS standards doesn't show it as a requirement. IV. TAKEOFFS, LANDINGS, AND GO-AROUNDS ! A. Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb (ASEL and ASES) ! B. Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! C. Soft-Field Takeoff and Climb (ASEL) ! D. Soft-Field Approach and Landing (ASEL) ! E. Short-Field (Confined Area?ASES) Takeoff and Maximum Performance Climb (ASEL and ASES) ! F. Short-Field Approach (Confined Area?ASES) and Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! G. Glassy Water Takeoff and Climb (ASES) ! H. Glassy Water Approach and Landing (ASES) ! I. Rough Water Takeoff and Climb (ASES) ! J. Rough Water Approach and Landing (ASES) ! K. Forward Slip to a Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! L. Go-Around/Rejected Landing (ASEL and ASES) Isn't there somewhat vague a section on emergency procedures which would allow the examiner to say, "your flaps have failed, now go land"? -- Michael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software |
#17
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flaps again
Michael Ash wrote:
In rec.aviation.student Gig601XLBuilder wrote: B A R R Y wrote: Vaughn Simon wrote: "WingFlaps" wrote in message news:2a8f80a4-d43b-4daf-b9c8- Don't you have to demonstrate flapless, short field and normal landings as part of you certificate? Not flapless. I had to. I didn't and a look at the PTS standards doesn't show it as a requirement. IV. TAKEOFFS, LANDINGS, AND GO-AROUNDS ! A. Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb (ASEL and ASES) ! B. Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! C. Soft-Field Takeoff and Climb (ASEL) ! D. Soft-Field Approach and Landing (ASEL) ! E. Short-Field (Confined Area?ASES) Takeoff and Maximum Performance Climb (ASEL and ASES) ! F. Short-Field Approach (Confined Area?ASES) and Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! G. Glassy Water Takeoff and Climb (ASES) ! H. Glassy Water Approach and Landing (ASES) ! I. Rough Water Takeoff and Climb (ASES) ! J. Rough Water Approach and Landing (ASES) ! K. Forward Slip to a Landing (ASEL and ASES) ! L. Go-Around/Rejected Landing (ASEL and ASES) Isn't there somewhat vague a section on emergency procedures which would allow the examiner to say, "your flaps have failed, now go land"? Yeah it's there and I've marked it below. But that doesn't mean you have to land with the gear up if the guy giving you the test tells you to. X. AREA OF OPERATION: EMERGENCY OPERATIONS SNIP 2. Analyzes the situation and takes appropriate action for simulated emergencies appropriate to the airplane provided for the practical test for at least three (3) of the following— a. partial or complete power loss. b. engine roughness or overheat. c. carburetor or induction icing. d. loss of oil pressure. e. fuel starvation. f. electrical malfunction. g. vacuum/pressure, and associated flight instruments malfunction. h. pitot/static. i. landing gear or flap malfunction. j. inoperative trim. k. inadvertent door or window opening. l. structural icing. m. smoke/fire/engine compartment fire. n. any other emergency appropriate to the airplane. 3. Follows the appropriate checklist or procedure. |
#18
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flaps again
snip
I as well wonder how this would not be noticed, but my experience is limited to one model Cessna. * * * * * *I've flown the 150, 172, 180, 182, 185 and 206 and all except the 180 and 185 do the same thing. The stab is in the downwash off the flaps and the nose will rise when flaps are applied. The snip It have been a few years since I flew a 177 and it wasn't an RG. However as I recall the flaps on the 177 are much smaller than most of the other Cessnas. They are more simlar to the flaps on the Cherokee. I don't recall how much pitch change they induced on the 177 but if there was a Cessna that the flaps didn't change the pitch much it probably would be the 177. I am sure there are a few others like possibly the C-140, C-188, etc. Brian CFIG/ASEL |
#19
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flaps again
In article ,
Michael Ash wrote: Isn't there somewhat vague a section on emergency procedures which would allow the examiner to say, "your flaps have failed, now go land"? When I'm teaching flapless landings, I never tell the student the flaps failed. I just quietly place my foot on the flap lever (works well in a PA-28) and refuse to move it :-) |
#20
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flaps again
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:00:44 -0600, Michael Ash
wrote: Isn't there somewhat vague a section on emergency procedures which would allow the examiner to say, "your flaps have failed, now go land"? My examiner called the no flap landing an emergency procedure. He announced the flap failure while asking for the ground control frequency on 2 mile final to New Haven. I told him I was too busy to pull out the AF/D, and would look up the correct frequency after landing. This was the correct answer. At 50 ft. AGL on the no flap emergency landing, he told me to go around, as the runway had debris on it. The go-around went well. During the approach, I had to describe the differences in between a no-flap landing and a normal landing. (hint: Green and White arcs, higher turning stall speeds) I also had to answer questions on if I would land on specific local runways with a flap failure, and why my landing roll would be longer. |
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