Is it easier now?

In article ,
on Sat, 28 Feb 2004 01:32:37 -0500,
Kevin Brooks attempted to say .....


"Tank Fixer" wrote in message
k.net...
In article ,
on 28 Feb 2004 04:51:25 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/27/04 8:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
on 27 Feb 2004 14:11:00 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 11:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 27 Feb 2004 03:49:51 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: Tank Fixer
Date: 2/26/04 7:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

In article ,
on 26 Feb 2004 20:44:20 GMT,
ArtKramr attempted to say .....


"Liberated" ? As I remember it there was no German resistance
whatever.
All
the
Germans had left and they just walked in without a shot being
fired.
Hardly
the
equivalent of landing on Omaha beach was it?. (sheesh)

Yes, I guess your right.

I mean the 41st Infantry had an easy time in New Guinea during
1942/43.

Or that Provisional Tank battalion that ended up on the Bataan
penensula
in 1941 as infantry after they ran out of fuel.

I mean, they were just National Guard troops....
Not real soldiers, right Art ?



At least Bush wasn't hiding in those units right?

No, he was flying a rather unforgiving aircraft.

Or are you saying the USAF had lax standards for pilot training in
the
early 70's ?


As Colin Powell said:
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and
well-placed managed to wangle slots in the Army Reserve and National
Guard units... Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class
discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all
Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their
country."



OK, so we know what the good general said.

I was asking you however.


I agree with General Powell.

Does your hatred for the Guard extend to those from WW2 ?

He has already said it does, per his comment on 21 FEB in this newsgroup:

"Back then the reserve and the guard were pathetic jokes and laughing stocks
for all of us. As I have said before, if you want to go to war, then go to
war and don't hand us this reserve or National Guard stuff. Tell a member of
the 101st fighting for his life at Bastogne what a great job the reserve is
doing to defend our country sitting in the USA nice and safe while he may
not live to see the end of this day."

I just want him to acknowledge it again. If he has the guts to.


Anybody want to bet that Art would not be willing to go to a reunion of
surviving Bataan Death March vets and tell them they were "pathetic jokes
and laughing stocks"?

You mean the survivors of the 194th Provisional Tank Battalion ?

How about those members of the 148th Field Artilary who ended up on East
Timor assisting the Dutch. I'm not sure any of them got out.

Or maybe one of the divisional reunions for the 29th
ID, 36th ID, 32nd ID, 28th ID, etc.? I doubt it. It is unbelieveable that
even after being corrected by numerous posters he clings to this strange
belief that Guardsmen and Reservists were doing weekend drills back home
during WWII...when in fact the Guard had been completely mobilized well
before he even got his sorry butt drafted ( I just noticed that in that same
message he indicated he was "called up the day he turned eighteen"...sounds
like a draftee to me, despite his repeated clamoring that he was a
"volunteer").


Or the 41st ID or for any of the other National Guard units called up in
1940.





--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 10:31 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 10:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
ubject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 8:01 AM Pacific Standard Time

Yes, it was the 344th that bombed Malmedy twice.

On what dates?

During the bulge.

Incompetent management.


The bulge was over a two week period. On EXACTLY what dates do you
claim
we hit
Malmedy.

You can do your own news search old fool.

I am a National Guard alumni.


And you are a ****ing liar.

The information is even part of a history channel program, with video of the
crumbled building. The 344th bombed a building occupied by allied troops
and then bombed the location again as rescuers dug out the injured.
fortunately noone was killed.

Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 10:41 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 10:31 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 10:21 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
ubject: Is it easier now?
From: "Tarver Engineering"
Date: 2/28/04 8:01 AM Pacific Standard Time

Yes, it was the 344th that bombed Malmedy twice.

On what dates?

During the bulge.

Incompetent management.


The bulge was over a two week period. On EXACTLY what dates do you
claim
we hit
Malmedy.

You can do your own news search old fool.

I am a National Guard alumni.


And you are a ****ing liar.

The information is even part of a history channel program, with video of the
crumbled building. The 344th bombed a building occupied by allied troops
and then bombed the location again as rescuers dug out the injured.
fortunately noone was killed.



What was the name of the program? when did it air? Liar.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Art flustered and spit out:
Yeah a lot of politicians went into the Guard. Like Bush. I guess you
disagree
with Powell.

Powell was talking about a specific time period, not over three centuries of
North American Militia history.
There were some people hiding out in the Militia in the period in question, but
not all! Most were professional patriotic people doing their part. You are
painting all reservists of more than three centuries of North American history
inaccurately and unfairly.
You refuse to acknowledge any other view except your own as impossible,
traitorous and a lie.

Rick Clark
P.S.
I guess you know that you can never go to Texas again. You have just called the
Texas Rangers a bunch of Wussies also, they started out as Militia/Minutemen.

On 2/28/04 5:10 AM, in article ,
"ArtKramr" wrote:

Yeah a lot of politicians went into the Guard. Like Bush. I guess you disagree
with Powell.

Yes it is easier now, as it is anytime we don't have to fight an all-out war
that requires total mobilization. But talk to LBJ about your complaints re
the guard. In fact, if you do dig him up, kick his ass once for me.

I disagree that Powell would have meant to include the ANG in general and
aircrew members in particular, in such a statement. If he did intend it, I
believe that, like too many Army types, he didn't really understand either
the USAF or the ANG. Given the historical context, which has been provided
repeatedly here and elsewhere and which you cannot understand or choose to
ignore, the Army Guard in the VN war years had a very different character
from that of the Air Guard.

If NOBODY could have avoided serving in some manner during those years, that
would have been better. If only volunteers had been used in SEA it would
have been best -- and an entirely different war, with no significant social
repercussions, and a hell of a lot greater likelihood of either success or a
far earlier peace through diplomatic compromise.

Sorry we didn't have your war to fight in, Art. We did pretty well,
considering the "leadership" we had to work with, in the war we did have. If
their decision was not to send Bush's unit, nor to allow pilots with less
than 500 hours to go to SEA on an individual basis, that's nobody's fault
but the Whitehouse'.

No one complains about Bob Hope's kid going into the CA ANG in 1965, why
bitch about GHWBush's kid going into the TX ANG when the war was, for the
USA, in its winding-down phase? I trust your vision through the Norden was
more clear in 1944 than it is when you read the newspaper today, because you
are off-target.

Perhaps you are reticent to take on Dubya where it matters, which is in his
ability to lead the Nation through some tough times in the proper direction.
But if you want to stick with the patriotic behavior thing, then fine --
stand by for a tidal wave which will wash Kerry right off the platform.


Jack
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