TOW PLANE Accident

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:47:15 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 3:38:19 PM UTC-5, Mike C wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:27:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).


"Video Study
The glider flight instructor recorded two videos on a GoPro Hero 5 video camera that included most of the flight. Although the videos did not capture the tow plane's ground impact, they captured portions of the tow plane's flight just before impact. Copies of the videos were forwarded to the National Transportation Safety Board Vehicle Recorders Laboratory, Washington, DC, for further examination."

Yes, I read that, and I alluded to that portion in my comment. What is your point? What conclusion did you draw from that part of the report?

I do not want to enter into a samsaric discourse, but I think you have misinterpreted the report and that the camera was controlled by the sailplane pilot. The tow plane pilot could have had an unrelated problem at the same time, which is possible. I also think that most of us recognized what seemed obvious because we have all had our seconds of inattention on tow and know how quickly one can get out of position. Last year I adjusted my radio and in an instant was way out of position. I learned a lesson and will not take my attention off the tow plane.

Mike

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 1:27:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).



I found the report to be clear and well written. This is one of the few NTSB glider accident reports in which most of us can read the report and know with high confidence what went wrong.

Your suggestion that it is probably the passenger's comment about looking away is just wacky when the opening sentence to that paragraph makes perfectly clear that it is comment from the pilot that is being reported.

Making judgements about accidents within the soaring community is critically important so that we have steerage for fixing things that aren't going well. This business of kiting on tow is one of those things that very much needs attention because it is killing people. Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine. When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned.

Could instant total power failure lead to a kiting incident? Tug starts down immediately glider goes up. Not saying that is what happened here just wondering about the possibility. Anyone had a full instantaneous power failure on tow?

I had a power failure once while towing my wife as a student in a Grob.Â*
She told me I went down sharply so she released and turned back.

On 3/10/2019 3:15 PM, wrote:
Could instant total power failure lead to a kiting incident? Tug starts down immediately glider goes up. Not saying that is what happened here just wondering about the possibility. Anyone had a full instantaneous power failure on tow?

--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 4:03:11 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 1:27:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).



I found the report to be clear and well written. This is one of the few NTSB glider accident reports in which most of us can read the report and know with high confidence what went wrong.

Your suggestion that it is probably the passenger's comment about looking away is just wacky when the opening sentence to that paragraph makes perfectly clear that it is comment from the pilot that is being reported.

Making judgements about accidents within the soaring community is critically important so that we have steerage for fixing things that aren't going well. This business of kiting on tow is one of those things that very much needs attention because it is killing people. Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine. When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned.

"Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine." Brilliant and useful comment, personal attacks usually are. Kind of my point about this thread, so much of it is useless crap. IMO we haven't learned much about "When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned" from this thread. For the most part, just a bunch of people spouting off emotionally. Fine if you see it differently, but nothing I've read in this thread is going to stop the next accident.
Anyway, we could also wait for someone who knows. Anyone who has looked at the video knows. Perhaps we tone it down so that someone feels like they can make a comment without getting flamed.

On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 2:24:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 4:03:11 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Sunday, March 10, 2019 at 1:27:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 6:59:06 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
My take after reading the NTSB report is the glider pilot looked away to adjust a GoPro, Got High on the tow early and drove the tug into the ground.
Does this sound correct?
God Damn it. These are easily preventable accidents.
Killing Tow Pilots like this is very bad form.
When I was towing I'd look pilots in the eye that I didn't know and say " If you get high on me your getting rope, immediately." Got it?

I will grant you, that is one terribly written report. It is hard to distinguish exactly who reported what and where the camera was. I THINK it is meant to read that the passenger comments, "he then looked away from the tow plane briefly to adjust a video camera. When he looked back toward the tow plane, he did not immediately see it but then noted that it was below and right of the glider." The report then states what the pilot reported? "Additionally, the flight instructor noticed slack in the tow rope that attached the glider to the tow plane. He then released the tow rope, turned the glider 180°, and landed uneventfully." I don't know because later it refers to the video that the pilot recorded...

If anything it's a good argument for a good liberal arts education regardless of career (you get to do plenty of writing that is read and critiqued by professors!).



I found the report to be clear and well written. This is one of the few NTSB glider accident reports in which most of us can read the report and know with high confidence what went wrong.

Your suggestion that it is probably the passenger's comment about looking away is just wacky when the opening sentence to that paragraph makes perfectly clear that it is comment from the pilot that is being reported.

Making judgements about accidents within the soaring community is critically important so that we have steerage for fixing things that aren't going well. This business of kiting on tow is one of those things that very much needs attention because it is killing people. Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine. When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned.

"Suggesting that we all put our head in the sand and proclaim that we don't know for sure is asinine." Brilliant and useful comment, personal attacks usually are. Kind of my point about this thread, so much of it is useless crap. IMO we haven't learned much about "When a fatal accident happens we all need to learn from that event whatever it is that needs to be learned" from this thread. For the most part, just a bunch of people spouting off emotionally. Fine if you see it differently, but nothing I've read in this thread is going to stop the next accident.
Anyway, we could also wait for someone who knows. Anyone who has looked at the video knows. Perhaps we tone it down so that someone feels like they can make a comment without getting flamed.

The problem with your comments and your point of view is that there are in fact very important takeaways from this accident and from the discussion of the accident. I think it is quite possible that the discussion here that emphasises the importance of glider pilot vigilance and avoiding all distractions during the first 600 feet of tow has the potential to critically influence someone that might otherwise be tempted to fiddle with his computer when he needs to focus on the towplane. It's possible that the discussion here will cause some operations to increase the length of the towrope which may have the potential to save a tuggies life one day. Then there is the discussion regarding the tow release problems that might ultimately save lives if the release hardware gets improved. There is also a worthy discussion as to whether we might make life safer for tow pilots if we primarily trained low tow (that one is not obvious, but needs consideration).

Going back to the original purpose of this posting (help finding a towplane), there is a '76 Pawnee 235 for sale in Canada set up as a sprayer. Low time since overhaul. Expensive. Listed on Barnstormers.
Good luck.
ROY

Well, that was a tragic NTSB report to read. Aside from sterile cockpit, I'm thinking a lesson may be to slightly adjust CB SIT CBE.

Ballast already includes verifying the tail wheel is off.
Emergency needs to look at and touch the Yellow handle.

Cameras have become one more enticing temptation to fiddle with something on tow. I know of one premature release on tow when the pilot intended to adjust the rudder pedals. The result was an expensive tailboom repair. Fortunately no injuries.

Below 1000' Don't fiddle with anything but trim.

Exceptions:
the flaps are set wrong
the spoilers have come out

I've been towing a number of years (3000+ tows). I ask every new glider student what's the number one rule on aerotow. They better answer: "Don't kill your tow pilot." The one time someone (very experienced glider pilot and CFIG) kited on me on tow, the negative g's plastered me against the ceiling of the towplane and I physically could not reach the tow release handle on the floor. If it had occurred a couple of hundred feet above the ground I would not have recovered. The pilot said he was momentarily distracted and looked away from the towplane. It doesn't take but a few seconds and no one is immune...