Why was the USAF.....................

"Chad Irby" wrote

In reality, you'd have to buy a few thousand Patriot batteries, enlist a
few hundred thousand people to man them 24/7, and then the bad guys
would do something else to kill people.

Patriot batteries don't require many people.

You either man the fire department, or you don't. Just think if we didn't
have fire departments because they were just too expensive.

Is losing an economic center cheaper than manning a defense?

"tscottme" wrote

How many Star Trek conventions have you attended?

None. But I have assists in 4 Mig kills in one afternoon, so
I can appreciate a quality Air Defense.

"tscottme" wrote
Mark and Kim Smith wrote

Question: Your are in charge of the air force in 2001. What would you
have done to prevent 9/11 from occuring?


He would get in his time machine and travel back before the birth of
Muhammed and create a religion that worships afternoon naps.

I wouldn't have trusted the FAA to defend the centers of commerce and government.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message news:zE1Lb.9465$6l1.4352@okepread03...
"Pete" wrote

Really. So what should have been done differently?

New York should have AAA and SAM batteries, like most third world
countries. There should be no way an airplane can enter New York City
at high speed that isn't identified. Any aircraft at the speeds given, at such
a low altitude should be splashed before they enter a center of commerce.

I would have NYC ringed by Patriot batteries, and anything above 250 knots
that isn't on a flight plan should be terminated. Error on the side of those on the
ground.

Do you remember KAL 007? The Soviets did pretty much exactly what you
have in mind - they shot down an airline that was off-route and had
entered their airspace. And that wasn't even in a area with several
major airports - with the number of flights coming into NY
(occasionally with emergencies) each day, are you going to risk
shooting down the wrong plane?

Eugene Styer

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:hE0Lb.9457$6l1.3782@okepread03...

You're off a few years. The Air Defense Command went out of
business in 1978 (I was there).


Air Defense Command became Aerospace Defense Command in 1968.

As a USAF major command, ADC was inactivated in 1979 and control of USAF
interceptor units and air surveillance radars and control centers was
transferred to TAC. Control of space surveillance assets transferred to
SAC, and ADC communications assets transferred to AFCC.

ADC was inactivated at that time only as a major USAF command, Aerospace
Defense Command continued to function as a US specified command.



When the F-106 was retired, there was no
priority to continental air defense. It basically became an FAA
air traffic control system.


Downsizing of continental air defense began long before the retirement of
the F-106. In fact, it began not long after the introduction of the F-106.
Very little of that air defense system became part of the FAA. The NOTIP
project demonstrated that SAGE wasn't a very good system for ATC. Some
radar sites were joint-use, that was about it.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...

The original poster asked a reasonable question and I was hoping
that someone such as yourself on active duty would've provided a
reasonable answer by now.


The original poster was a mindless troll. His question, far from
reasonable, cannot be answered as it assumes something to be true that is
not.



Since I am not in the military I can only
speculate but it's obvious that the USAF dropped the ball on 9/11
BIG time!


How so?



Don't get me wrong, I realize that after the wall came down in 1989
the USAF didn't have fighters sitting at the ready all over the U.S.
pre-armed with missiles and pilots just waiting to shoot down domestic
airliners that have been hijacked by "Islamic ****s" ($1 to Juvat).


Nor did the USAF have fighters sitting at the ready all over the U.S.
pre-armed with missiles and pilots just waiting to shoot down domestic
airliners before the wall was opened in 1989.



Having said that, to this day I too am confounded by the apparent
ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence
community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic
death and destruction of 9/11.


What was the USAF failure with regard to 9/11?

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:2y1Lb.9463$6l1.3157@okepread03...

Anyone with D model time, is long retired, or dead.


The last B-52Ds were retired in 1983. It wouldn't surprise me to find a few
colonels or generals or some senior NCOs still on active duty with B-52D
experience.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
news:zE1Lb.9465$6l1.4352@okepread03...

New York should have AAA and SAM batteries, like most third world
countries.


It did. The Skysweeper AAA batteries were phased out in the fifties with
the introduction of Nike SAM batteries, which lasted until 1974.



There should be no way an airplane can enter New York City
at high speed that isn't identified. Any aircraft at the speeds given, at
such
a low altitude should be splashed before they enter a center of commerce.


What about aircraft approaching New York from points within the US?



I would have NYC ringed by Patriot batteries, and anything above 250 knots
that isn't on a flight plan should be terminated.


Well, then, it's good that you're not in charge of air defense.



Error on the side of those on the ground.


Because the lives of those on the ground are more valuable than the lives of
those in the airplane?

Buzzer wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

AFAIK, nobody knew what was about to happen back on Sept. 11, 2001,
but that's the whole point!

“The Man Who Knew”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../synopsis.html

Fascinating stuff, thanks for the link.

I recall a watching a TV interview featuring Murray Weiss, author of
the book, "The Man Who Warned America: The Life and Death of
John O'Neill, the FBI's Embattled Counterterror Warrior."

I will definitely read THIS book!

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds.

-- Albert Einstein

Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
B2431 wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Of course you're correct. Let's disregard the manner in which the
question was asked (the original poster asked, "Why was the USAF stood
down on 9/11?") and simply ask instead something along the lines of;
"Why was the USAF unable to prevent 9/11?"

The orignal poster has no idea of what standing down means.

That's true. While much of my service was overseas,
the only time I can recall a one-day "stand down" was
in 1969, during a well-organized civilian "Moratorium
Against the (VN) War" - and it only applied to TAC.
(Evidently, they were concerned that the demonstration
would be considerably larger than it actually was...)

I agreed that the original poster either A) had no idea what "standing
down" means, or B) was simply trolling. Hence, my suggestion above
to restate the question so as to have a more meaningful and productive
discussion as opposed to the usual trolling and massive amounts of
wasted bandwidth mudslinging.

Your suggestion that the USAF was somehow at fault for 9/11 is offensive and it
shows you have no idea what the USAF's job is.

Agreed.

After spending the first 20 years of my life on ADC bases I grew
accustomed to the sound of afterburners blasting off all day
and night and the even louder concussions of sonic booms.
As a young kid, I rode in those dark blue Air Force panel trucks on
the flightline with Dad and his RO's carrying their chutes, kneeboards
and helmet bags. I sat in the tower and listened to his radio
conversations and watched until my neck was sore as my ol' man
roared down the runway at Kingsley Field and pulled straight
up 'till he was clean out of sight. Hell, I've even drank beer with
him and his pilot buds and a few of the wise old maintenance types
whom he fondly referred to as "Zebras." In other words, I have a
pretty damn good idea of what the USAF's job is and to imply
otherwise is offensive not only to me, but also the USAF. The purpose
of this NG is to discuss all-things-military aviation, and that is all
I am attempting to do. Anyone who knows me, or either of my two
older brothers (not to mention my younger sister and my
Mother, of course!) knows just how much we honor and respect
the military and especially the USAF. If my remarks concerning
9/11 happen to offend you, I sincerely apologize. However, I remain
convinced that the USAF was at least partly to blame for 9/11. Not
unlike pre-Dec 7, 1941, the pre-Sept. 11, 2001 USAF (USAAF in
'41) had become complacent and both the Japs AND those Islamic
****s ($1 to Juvat) simply caught us all napping on the job, so
to speak. Like it or not, the horrific results of both surprise
attacks at Pearl Harbor and NYC/Washington DC speak for
themselves. But that's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours, of
course. Nice day!