hi alt oxygen

On 11 Mar 2004 19:31:57 -0800, (WaltBJ) wrote:

Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

When I was a ski-bum at Aspen, the conventional wisdom in the ski
patrol was that the turkeys (paying customers) breathed too much, or
too often, or too deeply. They claimed that the most important part of
their kit was a paper bag. You gave it to the immobilized turkey and
made him breath into it for a time, thus getting more carbon dioxide
into his lungs.

Of course skiers are exercising, so perhaps more like to over-breathe
than under-breathe.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In article , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: hi alt oxygen
From: Dave Eadsforth
Date: 3/11/04 3:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of interest, Art, did you ever have to use the A-7 mask (and
presumably a throat mike?) or was the A-14 in universal use while you
were operational?

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth


In training at Cadet school we used a mask that had a rubber bag hannging down.

I guess that that might have been an A-7 or an A-8 - I'm no expert, I
just looked up a few things on the net once this thread started.

We called it a spit bag. Every few minutes you had to pull the plug from the
bottom of the bag and drain out the saliva.

Yuk!

In cold weather it froze and
couldn't be drained.

Now I wonder if a swig of whisky could have solved that?

Once we graduated and went to transitional we were used
low pressure demand masks. More comfortable.

That sounds like the A-14 demand mask

Besides those early high pressure
systems were given to blowing up if even a minute amount of grease came in
contactwith the oxygen.

Charming - and an opportunity for an act of malice...

It was a 1,000 lb/sq/ inch sytem., The later demand
masks worked on a low pressure system and were much safer as well as more
comfortable.

From the photos I have seen it covered almost the whole of the lower
face, which instinctively looks more comfortable than some other types.
I have used the RAF Type H, which edges into the cheeks somewhat, and
when you take it off you look like Homer Simpson.

Sorry.I don't remember the designations.

I only discovered them recently...



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

Subject: hi alt oxygen
From: Dave Eadsforth
Date: 3/12/04 3:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: hi alt oxygen
From: Dave Eadsforth
Date: 3/11/04 3:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:



Just out of interest, Art, did you ever have to use the A-7 mask (and
presumably a throat mike?) or was the A-14 in universal use while you
were operational?

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth


In training at Cadet school we used a mask that had a rubber bag hannging
down.

I guess that that might have been an A-7 or an A-8 - I'm no expert, I
just looked up a few things on the net once this thread started.

We called it a spit bag. Every few minutes you had to pull the plug from
the
bottom of the bag and drain out the saliva.

Yuk!

In cold weather it froze and
couldn't be drained.

Now I wonder if a swig of whisky could have solved that?

Once we graduated and went to transitional we were used
low pressure demand masks. More comfortable.

That sounds like the A-14 demand mask

Besides those early high pressure
systems were given to blowing up if even a minute amount of grease came in
contactwith the oxygen.

Charming - and an opportunity for an act of malice...

It was a 1,000 lb/sq/ inch sytem., The later demand
masks worked on a low pressure system and were much safer as well as more
comfortable.

From the photos I have seen it covered almost the whole of the lower
face, which instinctively looks more comfortable than some other types.
I have used the RAF Type H, which edges into the cheeks somewhat, and
when you take it off you look like Homer Simpson.

Sorry.I don't remember the designations.

I only discovered them recently...




We could usually open up the frozen spit bag opening by rolling it hard between
our thumb and forefinger until the ice cracked, then blow hard into the mask to
blow the opening clear. What a pain especially if it froze when we were busy.
And it always seemed to freeze when we were busy.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Dave Eadsforth wrote:


From the photos I have seen it covered almost the whole of the lower
face, which instinctively looks more comfortable than some other types.
I have used the RAF Type H, which edges into the cheeks somewhat, and
when you take it off you look like Homer Simpson.


That was the kind that we wore in the fifties , sixties etc. Sort
of a dark green colour and they had a carbon microphone in them
for the intercom system.
--

-Gord.

In article , Gord Beaman
?@?.? writes
Dave Eadsforth wrote:


From the photos I have seen it covered almost the whole of the lower
face, which instinctively looks more comfortable than some other types.
I have used the RAF Type H, which edges into the cheeks somewhat, and
when you take it off you look like Homer Simpson.


That was the kind that we wore in the fifties , sixties etc. Sort
of a dark green colour and they had a carbon microphone in them
for the intercom system.
--

-Gord.

Yup, Gord, that's the one; still very much in favour as the 'H' will
plug into both the WWII 'C' helmet loom and the post-war 'G' canvas
helmets.

If you want a good laugh, let me have your mail id and I'll send you a
picture of me taken last year after a Tiger Moth flight; with my H mask,
C helmet, the C jack plug shoved into a NATO converter and then into a
carbon mike convertor box - everything dangles (including me - I'd just
finished stretching my back when the shutter was snapped).

Cheers,

Dave
--
Dave Eadsforth

WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

I never did find out what the critical altitude on the turbo was, but
judging by its performance on Trail Ridge that day it must have been well
over 14,000 feet (allowing for density altitude). Couldn't have a more
clear illustration of a turbo's thin air performance advantage than that.
I later took the car up to 13,200 feet in the White Mountains one
September with two people and gear, and I don't remember any altitude
problems there either, at least for the car (it was graded gravel and
dirt, so I wasn't driving very fast in any case). Both of _us_ had AMS
from ascending too fast from sea level, even though we'd slept at 9,000
feet the night before.

My Subaru Forester (some SOB stole my old Subie in its fifteenth year, or
I'd still be happily driving it) doesn't have a turbo (they only came out
with the XT turbo model in June or so of last year, and I had to buy a car
that January). It's got about 165 hp and more torque, so my old turbo
would come up short up to about 8,000 feet or so, but have more power
above that. Living in the SF Bay Area at sea level and driving up to the
Sierra it hasn't been a problem so far, but I have yet to carry that much
of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two
people and backpacking gear last August, so I probably don't need a turbo
here, and I'm happy not to have to worry about the turbo blowing up or
suffering other expensive problems (not that I had any, but I changed my
oil every 3,000 miles and let it idle down properly after hard driving).
But if I was living in Colorado up against the Front Range and/or
commuting across it, I'd sure want one. I've read that Subaru developed
the Turbo Forester XT precisely because the normally-aspirated model was
left gasping for breath commuting through the Eisenhower tunnel (@11,000
feet). As Homer Simpson might say, "210 hp all the way up, M'mm."

Guy

Guy wrote in (small) part:
The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite... The lower parking lot in
Bristlecone Forest is over 10 grand. I think there is an upper lot at about 12
-- which had my old Porsche 912 gasping. One of the treees there is arguably
the oldest living thing on our planet. Stunningly gorgeous drive. Do it!
The UC Berkeley research station on the top of White Mountain is about 14,250
feet up. Pretty sure road is paved, although not available to the public.
Bring your snow tractor in winter.

If you are unaccustomed to altitude and plan on such a trip, get a small squirt
bottle of "4-Way Nasal Spray." When you wake up in the middle of the night at
8K, gasping for air, stick in nose, squirt-squirt, and go back to sleep
breathing easily. Amazing.


Quent

Dave Eadsforth wrote:


That was the kind that we wore in the fifties , sixties etc. Sort
of a dark green colour and they had a carbon microphone in them
for the intercom system.
--

-Gord.

Yup, Gord, that's the one; still very much in favour as the 'H' will
plug into both the WWII 'C' helmet loom and the post-war 'G' canvas
helmets.

If you want a good laugh, let me have your mail id and I'll send you a
picture of me taken last year after a Tiger Moth flight; with my H mask,
C helmet, the C jack plug shoved into a NATO converter and then into a
carbon mike convertor box - everything dangles (including me - I'd just
finished stretching my back when the shutter was snapped).

Cheers,

Dave

Ok Dave...I need to do it in a sort of round about fashion though
(it has the ad(disad)vantage of showing my picture also) use the
URL http://www.qrz.com/ and type into the little window 've1eo'.
That's my Amateur Radio callsign, then click on 'show email
address' just below my picture...

Why I'm so touchy about spam is that I got into a real mess here
on usenet with spam. I had my real address showing somewhere in
my message headers and in about two years it had built up to 5 or
6 hundred msgs a day. Last measured it at 945 pieces in a 12 hour
period. It had shut my email right down so I had to change my
email address. Hateful task that...
--

-Gord.

QDurham wrote:

Guy wrote in (small) part:
The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite... The lower parking lot in
Bristlecone Forest is over 10 grand.

Yup, you're right, I couldn't remember if the pavement went all the way to Schulman
Grove (10,100 feet). At least when I first drove it 20-some years ago, IIRR the
pavement ran out somewhat lower, somewhere between Sierra Viewpoint @ 9,280 ft. and
Schulman. But unlike Hwy 120 over Tioga Pass, given the winding nature of the road
above Grandview Campground @ 8,500 feet, speed and passing ability really isn't an
issue there.

I think there is an upper lot at about 12
-- which had my old Porsche 912 gasping. One of the treees there is arguably
the oldest living thing on our planet.

Unless they've found an older one, Methuselah is at Schulman Grove, not the higher
Patriarch Grove (11,200 ft.)

Stunningly gorgeous drive. Do it!

Have. Also backpacked/skiied it ;-)


The UC Berkeley research station on the top of White Mountain is about 14,250
feet up. Pretty sure road is paved, although not available to the public.
Bring your snow tractor in winter.

It certainly wasn't paved the last time I was up there, around 1991 or 92.
Pavement runs out at Schulman, and it's graded dirt/gravel from there on to the Mt.
Barcroft Research Station @ 12,400 ft. (rather than the 13,200 I wrote in my
previous post. Mt. Barcroft itself is 13,040 -- I checked the topo to refresh my
memory), degrading to a jeep trail from there to the top. There's a gate 2 miles
short of Barcroft at around 11,700 or so, which is normally locked, motor vehicle
travel beyond it being for official use only, so private parties have to park at
the gate and hike/bike if they wish to go further. On that particular trip we were
able to drive right up to Barcroft because we were part of a class, and were
staying at the station that night. Oh, living rough, satellite TV, table tennis
and billiards! It seems to be a fairly popular mountain bike ride from the gate to
the top, being (IIRR) between 13-15 miles round trip, and I've also day-hiked to
the top and back from there in a fairly easy day (provided you've acclimatized and
are in good hiking shape).

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
WaltBJ wrote:

More trivia on flight and oxygen:

snip

As for the Rocky Mountains, when we get flatlanders up here for a
visit and take them for a drive up over Trail Ridge road - peak
altitude about 12,200, they usually doze off because they won't
breathe (pant) enough.

(Almost totally OT) Ah, Trail Ridge road. When my '88 Subaru GL Turbo 4WD
Wagon was almost brand new, I took four people and all our gear for a week
over Trail Ridge (we'd driven from California, but spent a night and half
day in Great Basin Nat. Park, including sleeping at 10,000 feet). The
Subaru only had 115 hp and had a curb weight of about 3,000 lb., and
virtually everyone had a better power/weight ratio and was faster than I
was -- at sea level. So there we were, climbing up the west side on a
hot, muggy summer day (it was in the high '80s or low '90s, I forget
which, when we passed through Granby @ 8,500 feet), and all of a sudden I
found I was just about the most powerful car on the road, as I passed what
were far more powerful cars (at sea level) while driving uphill at ca.
10,000 ft. I could drive as fast as I wanted to (max. 40-50 or so) uphill
on the fairly open two-lane road, with 1-2,000 foot dropoffs on the side
and usually no guardrails on the turns. Coming back over from east to west
was the same.

Hmm, I was across Trail Ridge Road a couple of times last summer (same
trip) but never really noticed a loss of power there or down at Pike's Peak.
Just must not have been putting my foot in it hard enough to notice. That
and mass-air-flow sensors driving the fuel injection helps.

of a load that high, that hot. The highest paved road in California goes
over Tioga Pass (9,941 ft.) in Yosemite, and it handled that fine with two

Nice developed campground up there, Tuolumne Meadows, only 8600'
but sub freezing temperatures of a night about anytime of the year. Good
tent sleeping.
Seems like the airliners come through that gap pretty low of a night.
Oh, watch the speed up there, the only place I've ever seen a National
Park Service radar speed trap, at 0-dark:30 no less.


Just to make some attempt to getting this on topic I'll mention that the
Navy has a mobile home or two parked at the top of Pike's Peak doing
some kind of aeronautical research.