Annual Off to a Good Start

Peter R. wrote:
On 3/21/2007 3:55:17 PM, "Jim Burns" wrote:

What's that? Oh it DIDN'T leak! Good for you! You showed those bloody
engineers! Ha! Take that!

Man, that is painful to read.

The new tanks now a days are very flexible. They won't stand up by
themselves whereas the old one do, they were very stiff. It is not
necessary to make sure the new tanks are warm before rolling them up.
There are no sharp edges to worry about, at least in the Bonanza and I
don't recall any in the 182. It took about 5 minutes to attach the
snaps. All wiring and fuel transmitter is accessed thru the top of the
wing. The Cessna is a bad deal in this respect. The key is to replace
the fuel transmitter screws with bolt head screws.

wrote:


"that would be stupid, why pay the up charge"

Well, let's see. Based purely on personal experience, the life of an
aftermarket tank is usually about half that of an OEM tank-primarily
depends on how good of a job the aftermarket boys did in "engineering"
the new tank.

Ah, no. You'll get 20-30 years from a bladder. The OEM gets their
tanks from the same people the aftermarket comes from.


The other reason might be that there are aftermarket
Bonanza tanks out there that will NOT fit in the applicable make and
model of A/C.


I'm only aware of the three aftermarket suppliers. I went with the
cheapest, which is currently FFC. The other two are Eagle and Hartwig.
One of those just buys from FFC and charges about $100 more per tank.
The other, Hartwig if I recall right, was about $500 more.






BTW, why did you charge yourself labor for changing out a bladder?

I didn't say I charged myself labor, only that there's less labor in the
Bo than in the 182.

Jay Honeck wrote:
Here's a true but all-to-common sad tale of my owner-assisted
annuals: As I was reinstalling the gas tank (by finger screwing in
the 3.2 million stainless steel screws that hold it in the wing) all
was going well -- until the VERY LAST SCREW.

Uh-oh. Before you said you took out 6.3 million screws. There are 3.1
million screws floating around loose somewhere... did you look at your
A&P's biplane to see if he "borrowed" some of your screws? If not you
might have to re-do your weight and balance.

That one just fell in the hole, and would NOT tighten. This couldn't
possibly ever happen on the FIRST screw, or even the 20th screw -- it
HAS to be the last one. So, I had to take them all out, jostle the
tank a bit, and start over.

This is why you leave everything really loose - like, each screw only
engaged a couple of turns - until you've got all the screws in. You
might pick two screws on opposite sides of the thing and run them all
the way down just to keep the panel basically in place, but then you've
only got two screws to back all the way out if you can't get one started.

It may also be helpful to have a tapered drift handy to get things to
line up - use steel carefully, or brass, aluminum, plastic, or wood if
you're being really careful of the threads. Or, use a little pick or
hook to reach up in the hole and poke the nut plate or Tinnerman nut
into place.

The same thing goes for putting in bolts or putting nuts on studs when
there is more than one. Start them all, then tighten each one a little
at a time. Sometimes the manufacturer will have a recommended order
and torque. If not, doing something like tightening to finger tight or
until the nut or bolt head seats, then to maybe two-thirds of the final
torque, then to the final torque works well. This kind of thing tends
to be associated with "bigger" stuff like engines, so it might not be
the kind of thing you get to do on the plane, but it works just as well
on your car or around the house.

Matt Roberds

Disclaimer: This is based on experience with ground vehicles and in
fixed installations. I don't have an A&P; I don't even have a TG&Y.
Some of this may not be allowable owner maintenance. Your mileage
may vary.

On 3/21/2007 11:10:10 PM, Newps wrote:

The new tanks now a days are very flexible.

Just for my future reference, what are the signs that a bladder needs
replacing? Rubber chunks in the fuel sampler cup? Fuel stains or an obvious
leak under the wing? Something else?

--
Peter

Blue stains under the wings and debris in the fuel sample is what I've
been advised to keep an eye out for. There's a really nice 182 at my
field that was just painted and had a new leather interior installed
shortly before one of the tanks started leaking. Some fuel even got
into the interior. I hope it didn't leave any permanent stains. What a
pity it didn't happen before all the new work was done.

Dave
M35


Peter R. wrote:
On 3/21/2007 11:10:10 PM, Newps wrote:

The new tanks now a days are very flexible.

Just for my future reference, what are the signs that a bladder needs
replacing? Rubber chunks in the fuel sampler cup? Fuel stains or an obvious
leak under the wing? Something else?

Uh-oh. Before you said you took out 6.3 million screws. There are 3.1
million screws floating around loose somewhere... did you look at your
A&P's biplane to see if he "borrowed" some of your screws? If not you
might have to re-do your weight and balance.

Dang, you're right! Those were expensive screws, too!

;-)

This is why you leave everything really loose - like, each screw only
engaged a couple of turns - until you've got all the screws in.

That's what REALLY ****ed me off -- I did that! I thought I was so
damned smart, just finger-tightening each screw before torquing them
all down -- and that last screw STILL kicked my butt.

Ah well, it's all done, no screws stripped. Another year of flying
ahead!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

We've got a 50 hour recurring AD on the Aztec to look for fuel stains under
the trailing edges of our wings. Keep your bladders full, I understand the
most common failure is around the fill tube where they can dry out
prematurely if not full of fuel.
Jim

On 3/22/2007 9:32:41 AM, dave wrote:

Blue stains under the wings and debris in the fuel sample is what I've
been advised to keep an eye out for.

Thanks, Jim and Dave.

--
Peter

Newps wrote:
How do you
get a Cherokee tank out? Derivet? Remove a wing?



Cherokee tanks don't have bladders. The tank forms a portion of the
leading edge of the wing. It is held in by about 70 screws around the
edge of the tank. After taking out the screws the tank slides forward,
often with the help of a 2x4 place along the rear edge on top of the
spar and a rubber mallet. Assuming the screws haven't corroded into
place, it takes about a half hour to pull an empty tank off a Cherokee.

The tanks do start to leak at the seams sometimes. They can be resealed
by drilling out all the rivets, cleaning up the pieces and putting them
back together with new sealing compound at the seams, which is typically
done by a shop that specializes in rebuilding cherokee tanks.

Peter R. wrote:
On 3/21/2007 11:10:10 PM, Newps wrote:
The new tanks now a days are very flexible.

Just for my future reference, what are the signs that a bladder needs
replacing? Rubber chunks in the fuel sampler cup? Fuel stains or an
obvious
leak under the wing? Something else?



I rarely sump my tanks, pretty much only after parking outside
overnight. Look for the blue stain on the underside of the wing
along the wing spar line. Check the fuel vent line thru the inspection
hole, the nipple for the vent line is what broke on my tank causing gas
to leak out every time the bladder was filled. I put up with that for
about 6 months before replacing the tank. Also check the gaskets for
the fuel filler and fuel senders. They can get loose and leak.