Piper pilots! Need Warrior Help!

Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

....1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Good bird -- I owned a '75 from '98 - '02.

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

Where in the world did you get THAT figure?

Here are the actual Warrior specs:

Warrior
1974-1977

Performance:
(Knots, nautical miles in parentheses)

Top Speed (Sea Level) 135 (117)
Cruise: 133 (115)
Best Rate of Climb: 91 (79)
Stall Speed (with flaps) 58 (50)

Fuel Consumption (75% power): 8.5 gph
Range (75% at 7,000 ft.) 720 (626)
Takeoff over 50' obstacle: 1,760 feet
Ground run: 1,065 feet
Landing over 50' obstacle: 1,115 feet
Ground run: 595 feet
Rate of climb (Sea Level): 649 feet
Service Ceiling: 12,700 feet

Specifications
Fuel capacity: 50 gallons
Engine: Lycoming 0-320-E3D
TBO: 2,000 hours
Power: 150 hp

Wing Span: 35 ft 0 in
Wing Area: 170 sq ft
Length: 23 ft 9 in
Height: 7 ft 4 in
Wing Loading: 13.7 lb/sq ft
Power Loading: 15.5 lb/hp

Gross Weight: 2,325 lbs
Empty Weight: 1,301 lbs
Useful Load: 1,024 lbs
Baggage Capacity: 200 lbs

The Warrior is a great plane. It's forgiving, it's tough, it burns car
gas at just 8 gph (or less!), it'll haul four people if you go light on
fuel, and it's easy to land.

(That useful load figure in the stats, above, is highly suspect, IMHO.
Plan on closer to 900 lbs.)

If you're not in a big hurry, and you don't need to haul a ton, the
Warrior is the perfect plane.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Avation Destination"

Make sure it's apples to apples. One could be indicated
and one calibrated airspeed.


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

Hi Jay!

Figured you would be out there!

(yeah, the 172 may be gone, I will send a new pic for the
gallery if this happens)

I got this 44 kns off of 3 websites with Warrior specs ...

Your numbers SPAN the "break" in my specs at 1976/7...(?)

TY 4 UR help on this...



The Warrior is a great plane. It's forgiving, it's tough, it burns car
gas at just 8 gph (or less!), it'll haul four people if you go light on
fuel, and it's easy to land.

(That useful load figure in the stats, above, is highly suspect, IMHO.
Plan on closer to 900 lbs.)

If you're not in a big hurry, and you don't need to haul a ton, the
Warrior is the perfect plane.

We are not, and don't need to!

I have early time in a 161, loved it!

Cheers!

Dave

Hmmm... thought of that Otis, but a 30% spread? (44 - 58)

?

Dave





On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:11:08 GMT, "OtisWinslow"
wrote:

Make sure it's apples to apples. One could be indicated
and one calibrated airspeed.


"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

My Aircraft Bluebook Price Digest, under Specs, shows a PA28-151 Warrior
with a stall speed of 44 and a note saying "Prior 77 stall = 58" with no
further explanation. Lists both 76 and 77 with a 150 hp engine. Aviation
Consumer's Used Aircraft Guide shows that the 77 got a 10hp boost...owners
of the 150hp version complained of poor climb performance. Can't quite
figure out how ten more horses would affect power-off stall speed. To
further confuse the issue, Motorbooks International's Piper Buyer's Guide
says that Piper went to 160hp in 1975 and doesn't discuss stall speed at
all.

I was instructing full-time at a Piper operation during the time period when
the 140 turned into a 151 and can't recall anything about the Warrior that I
didn't like. Pretty bulletproof in my opinion.

There are mods available that affect stall speed, like aileron gap seals,
but their effect wouldn't show up in the pubs I have, which deal in
unmodified airframes.

Bob Gardner




"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Good bird -- I owned a '75 from '98 - '02.

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

Where in the world did you get THAT figure?

Here are the actual Warrior specs:

Warrior
1974-1977

Performance:
(Knots, nautical miles in parentheses)

Top Speed (Sea Level) 135 (117)


I assume that you are saying STATUTE MILES PER HOUR outside of parentheses,
and knots IN parenthesis, right?

Look here Jay..

http://www.pilotfriend.com/Piper%20aircraft.htm

and
http://www.premi-air.co.nz/singlespe...iper+PA-28-151

Dave




On 3 Jun 2005 15:00:37 -0700, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Good bird -- I owned a '75 from '98 - '02.

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

The plot thickens!

I mn finding the same. (note links posted above) from several sources.

This 14 knts had to come from SOMEWHERE...

TY!

Dave



On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:21:52 -0700, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:

My Aircraft Bluebook Price Digest, under Specs, shows a PA28-151 Warrior
with a stall speed of 44 and a note saying "Prior 77 stall = 58" with no
further explanation. Lists both 76 and 77 with a 150 hp engine. Aviation
Consumer's Used Aircraft Guide shows that the 77 got a 10hp boost...owners
of the 150hp version complained of poor climb performance. Can't quite
figure out how ten more horses would affect power-off stall speed. To
further confuse the issue, Motorbooks International's Piper Buyer's Guide
says that Piper went to 160hp in 1975 and doesn't discuss stall speed at
all.

I was instructing full-time at a Piper operation during the time period when
the 140 turned into a 151 and can't recall anything about the Warrior that I
didn't like. Pretty bulletproof in my opinion.

There are mods available that affect stall speed, like aileron gap seals,
but their effect wouldn't show up in the pubs I have, which deal in
unmodified airframes.

Bob Gardner




"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

Dave wrote:
The plot thickens!

I mn finding the same. (note links posted above) from several sources.

This 14 knts had to come from SOMEWHERE...


I'm thinking that "Prior 77 stall = 58" might have come from the
point where Piper shifted from using MPH to Knots for their performance
figures. 58 mph is right where the dirty stall should be on most 150 -
180 hp PA28s. Where the "44" came from is anybody's guess. 58 mph
converted to knots is around 50-51 kts. Perhaps the missing 6 kts
might come from a measurement in indicated airspeed rather than
calibrated airspeed.

One thing I can tell you is that they all stall at around the same
speed. There were no drastic changes that changed the stall
characteristics from '76 to 77.

If you're seriously considering buying one, this is not something you
should spend a lot of time worrying about.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)