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Human factors RECKLESSNESS



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 28th 05, 10:00 PM
Andrew Gideon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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Trent Moorehead wrote:

I do get a rush of sorts when I take off, but the rest is more a feeling
of satisfaction.


I felt a rush the first time I flew into a cloud. The goal was to reach the
point where it *doesn't* cause a rush, however.

"Satisfaction"? That's a good label for what's left, yes.

- Andrew

Ads
  #22  
Old April 28th 05, 10:36 PM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Andrew Gideon wrote:

Smutny wrote:


Dude, you really need to step back and take a good look at what you're
exhibiting here.



You know, NW didn't need to post that he was doing aerobatics in a
*nonaerobatic* airplane. He convinced me a while back that he posts for
the shock value, and likely enjoys the huge response he generates as much
as he enjoys doing inappropriate things in/to aircraft.

I've enjoyed some of the resulting conversation (it never occurred to me
that an inadvertent roll might short the battery's terminals, for example),
but let's not give him the reward he craves. It just feeds his addiction,
and he'll be back for more.

- Andrew


Well, if the poster who said he was sending the video to his local FSDO
really does that and wasn't just bluffing, then we may not have to hear
of his aviation recklessness too much longer.

Matt
  #23  
Old April 28th 05, 11:32 PM
Dudley Henriques
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Smutny wrote:

Dude, you really need to step back and take a good look at what you're
exhibiting here.


You know, NW didn't need to post that he was doing aerobatics in a
*nonaerobatic* airplane. He convinced me a while back that he posts for
the shock value, and likely enjoys the huge response he generates as much
as he enjoys doing inappropriate things in/to aircraft.

I've enjoyed some of the resulting conversation (it never occurred to me
that an inadvertent roll might short the battery's terminals, for
example),
but let's not give him the reward he craves. It just feeds his addiction,
and he'll be back for more.

- Andrew


I have a slightly different take on posters ho post information like this
one did.

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path. By doing this, even if
it is a troll, it serves a positive purpose, and posting with a positive
purpose is the only reason why most pilots and instructors who want to see
students get the right information post here to begin with. :-)

So it's a win win situation. The students win, and hopefully the initial
poster learns something, even if he doesn't say so in print. And who cares
really if the initial poster admits he learns something in public. It's what
he does in the privacy of his own cockpit that will determine if the message
got across to him. If he was a troll, then the students reading both his
post and the answers it generated should serve a very useful purpose.
I'm a firm believer in using all the available tools in the bag to keep
people alive in airplanes........trolls included! :-)))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)


  #24  
Old April 28th 05, 11:53 PM
Andrew Gideon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dudley Henriques wrote:

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path.


I liked your approach. Many others have taken a different approach. The
difference is that you used this as an example for others, while others
have attempted to directly attempt to disuade the OP.

I think the latter a losing proposition in this particular case.

- Andrew

  #25  
Old April 29th 05, 12:16 AM
Dudley Henriques
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path.


I liked your approach. Many others have taken a different approach. The
difference is that you used this as an example for others, while others
have attempted to directly attempt to disuade the OP.

I think the latter a losing proposition in this particular case.

- Andrew


Without knowing anything but what I have read from the IP, I would tend to
agree with your assessment. But I don't blame those who have tried to set
him straight. In matters of flight safety , I will always opt for even the
slightest chance at setting someone straight on something as important as an
issue like this. If it's a waste of time for the IP, at least you can bounce
off him to get through to someone else who might be more receptive to common
sense.
It's been my experience through the years that taking the time to deal with
issues like this one can pay off big time. After all, if you manage to save
just one life by stopping long enough to shed a bit of light on the truth,
it makes this whole Usenet thing worth while...at least for me anyway :-)
But you're right. It tries my patience sometimes doing it! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)


  #26  
Old April 29th 05, 12:26 AM
NW_PILOT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gideon wrote:

Smutny wrote:


Dude, you really need to step back and take a good look at what you're
exhibiting here.



You know, NW didn't need to post that he was doing aerobatics in a
*nonaerobatic* airplane. He convinced me a while back that he posts for
the shock value, and likely enjoys the huge response he generates as

much
as he enjoys doing inappropriate things in/to aircraft.

I've enjoyed some of the resulting conversation (it never occurred to me
that an inadvertent roll might short the battery's terminals, for

example),
but let's not give him the reward he craves. It just feeds his

addiction,
and he'll be back for more.

- Andrew


Well, if the poster who said he was sending the video to his local FSDO
really does that and wasn't just bluffing, then we may not have to hear
of his aviation recklessness too much longer.

Matt



It's funny how you all think I did this in my airplane my airplane is blue &
white not red.


  #27  
Old April 29th 05, 01:01 AM
Toņo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dudley Henriques wrote:

- Andrew



I have a slightly different take on posters ho post information like this
one did.

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path. By doing this, even if
it is a troll, it serves a positive purpose, and posting with a positive
purpose is the only reason why most pilots and instructors who want to see
students get the right information post here to begin with. :-)

So it's a win win situation. The students win, and hopefully the initial
poster learns something, even if he doesn't say so in print. And who cares
really if the initial poster admits he learns something in public. It's what
he does in the privacy of his own cockpit that will determine if the message
got across to him. If he was a troll, then the students reading both his
post and the answers it generated should serve a very useful purpose.
I'm a firm believer in using all the available tools in the bag to keep
people alive in airplanes........trolls included! :-)))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)



I like the way you *spin* things, Dudley ! ;-)

Antonio
  #28  
Old April 29th 05, 01:33 AM
NW_PILOT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dudley Henriques" [email protected] .net wrote in message
k.net...

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path.


I liked your approach. Many others have taken a different approach.

The
difference is that you used this as an example for others, while others
have attempted to directly attempt to disuade the OP.

I think the latter a losing proposition in this particular case.

- Andrew


Without knowing anything but what I have read from the IP, I would tend to
agree with your assessment. But I don't blame those who have tried to set
him straight. In matters of flight safety , I will always opt for even the
slightest chance at setting someone straight on something as important as

an
issue like this. If it's a waste of time for the IP, at least you can

bounce
off him to get through to someone else who might be more receptive to

common
sense.
It's been my experience through the years that taking the time to deal

with
issues like this one can pay off big time. After all, if you manage to

save
just one life by stopping long enough to shed a bit of light on the truth,
it makes this whole Usenet thing worth while...at least for me anyway :-)
But you're right. It tries my patience sometimes doing it! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)



Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!


  #29  
Old April 29th 05, 02:24 AM
Dudley Henriques
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" [email protected] .net wrote in message
k.net...

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path.

I liked your approach. Many others have taken a different approach.

The
difference is that you used this as an example for others, while others
have attempted to directly attempt to disuade the OP.

I think the latter a losing proposition in this particular case.

- Andrew


Without knowing anything but what I have read from the IP, I would tend
to
agree with your assessment. But I don't blame those who have tried to set
him straight. In matters of flight safety , I will always opt for even
the
slightest chance at setting someone straight on something as important as

an
issue like this. If it's a waste of time for the IP, at least you can

bounce
off him to get through to someone else who might be more receptive to

common
sense.
It's been my experience through the years that taking the time to deal

with
issues like this one can pay off big time. After all, if you manage to

save
just one life by stopping long enough to shed a bit of light on the
truth,
it makes this whole Usenet thing worth while...at least for me anyway :-)
But you're right. It tries my patience sometimes doing it! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)



Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!


Believe me, if I was "flaming you", you'd know it! :-)
It's just that some of the things you are posting here are bothering me and
I'm puzzled as to how you can view things the way you are viewing them.
For example, in another post, you make an issue out of the color of the
airplane and whether or not the airplane belonged to you or not. These
things aren't important to this issue. Only the fact that you have said you
rolled a non aerobatic airplane and seem to be quite proud of doing that.
Then you have attempted to justify all this by saying in another post that
you had a competent instructor on board when you rolled this 150.
Trust me on this one. Any CFI who would sit there fat dumb and happy on his
butt in a Cessna 150 and allow someone to roll it is NOT a competent
instructor. Hell, I shouldn't have to tell you this. You should KNOW this!
The act was not only unsafe, it was illegal. And then you come on a student
pilot's newsgroup and proceed to tell the world that they should "live for
today".
I'm sorry old buddy, but FWIW, I just don't see aviation like this, and I
sincerely hope that I've got an odds on chance of convincing YOU that this
is NOT the way to approach your flying.
If you have any respect for my opinion at all, I may have succeeded in
pointing you in a different direction. If not, at least I tried.
Hell, I'm not out here to flame you. If I thought you were a troll, I
wouldn't waste my time on you.
You think about what I've told you. I can't "make" you think differently.
That's entirely up to you. You can take that 150 out tomorrow and roll it
again. I can't stop you. But then again, after any sting from what I have
told you wears off a bit, maybe you will end up with just a little better
handle on this. If that's the case, you don't even have to let me know about
it. It's just like playing golf. If you cheat, you're cheating only
yourself.
I don't post here to show people how much better a pilot I am or how much
smarter I am at flying then they are. Like most experienced pilots, I post
here because I feel it's necessary for people like myself to at least try
and pass on to those coming up what I learned from those who came before me
and what I learned on my own.
When I post like I have to you on an issue like this one, I'm not trying to
better you, or to make you "look bad". I'm not that shallow.
In the end, YOU will have to decide for yourself about what's safe and
what's unsafe in your approach to flying. As for me.....If any small input
from me has helped you and others to make good decisions along these lines,
the time and effort I have taken on this group will have been well spent.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)


  #30  
Old April 29th 05, 03:08 AM
private
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
snip
Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!


Hello NW_pilot

I started this new thread because it was not my intention to single out your
actions, others have said all that needed to be said. I think your
instructor is more deserving of critisism than you. You are not the first
to roll or loop a flight school Cessna and I doubt that you will be the
last. I hope it has been a learning experience and that you suffer no
further problems from your public announcement. I think you should be
commended for the grace with which you have received the replies of these
groups. The important thing is that you survived to be a better pilot.

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the consequences of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you have
been in my position too many times.

The study of human factors recognizes that (like Pogo) "We have seen the
problem and it is US". Controlling the aircraft is only a part of
successful flight operation, control of the pilot seems to be the largest
part of the problem.

Just my humble .02




 




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