What Is Wrong With OLC?

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 6:43:42 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I've been trying for over a year to get the OLC people to fix my login.
I've filled out their help forms too many times to count and they don't
reply and they don't fix the problem. As it stands now, I can not
upload my flights to OLC. When I log in I get a message that states (in
German) that my email address is not valid. But it is valid. And I am
logged on successfully. Then, when I select to upload a flight, I get
the same message stating that my email address is invalid.

Is there anyone listening at OLC? Is there anyone in Europe who can
contact them on my behalf? My email address is
. It is a valid address.

Since I can no longer upload flights, I won't be providing financial
support any more unless it's fixed. Too bad, since I'm currently number
1 at Moriarty and number 14 in the USA.

--
Dan, 5J

I had the exact same problem and a frustratingly similar experience until I was given a tip, there's an issue using our Earthlink.net e-mail addresses on OLC (I use one also). Register for a free gmail address, change your OLC account to use that address and you'll be in business within 5 minutes. While I'd far prefer to use my earthlink address like I do for everything else, OLC doesn't seem to support them or say anything about this issue in their FAQs. Make the change and you'll be good to go.

Chuck

On Monday, 30 January 2017 02:36:14 UTC+2, jfitch wrote:

Do you think being 200 km from home at 6 o'clock with no retrieve crew compares to being there with a full crew in chase?

A motorglider flown responsibly has only two advantages over a pure glider, both conveniences and neither a performance advantage: 1) No need to wait for your turn for the tow plane, and 2) no need to enlist a chase crew for flights with the possibility of a landout. Against these is the very real and substantial performance handicap of not being able to vary wing loading as much or at all.

Sorry to have to hijack the thread to rehash the tired old arguments yet again. Hire (or marry and spawn) a chase crew or buy a motorglider and stop whining. I am happy to have OLC lump those two together, separate from those leaving home with a pure glider, naked, if you like.

I do not have crew ready, I just call airfield and hope for some fellow pilot to retrieve me as everyone else does here. Our country's gliding history tells that no glider has ever been left to outlanding field, so odds are in my favour.

Flying glider with engine means that you can skip all the hassle and pain included in outlanding, crew chasing or not. That makes it childs play to push for extra 100 km at evening. Everyone knows and understands this. 100 extra points for OLC for every flight.

Try typing your user name and password out
instead of autotype.

Even OLC produces arguments about rules and fairness. I love it!

This is the problem with OLC and this is why I stopped contributing my flights regularly. It's fairly meaningless. I have lost interest. Comparing flights in two locations has zero objective value. Comparing flights on the same day (same location) in which one pilot tries N and the other S (for example) is meaningless. Comparing a flying site with a ridge or a "big air" western location vs a midwestern flatland location is meaningless. Pilots who launch early are going to get more miles obviously. Pilots who have a motor-glider can take more risk with potentially less hassle and fly father, later, no doubt.

But who cares?

This is why organized contests are so nice. Contest are the only means available to "level set" the many variables and make the flight comparisons between pilots valuable. Contest come in many flavors of objective value (FAI, US rules, Grand Prix). OLC is quite counter to the idea of objective measurement. It was fun for me a season or so until I realized that it was fairly pointless. No I almost never bother to upload a flight. What is the point? What is the value of uploading a flights to OLC? What does it prove. The only value for me was a logbook really. For me, just knowing for myself how the flight went (what went well, what I missed, what was learned) is enough. To share it on OLC or compare it with a pilot in TX or "wherever" (even a pilot flying at my home site on the same day) means little to nothing.

In terms of technical issues, I have never had any issues adding a flight or with my account although I do support the site with the recommended annual donations (smiley). Maybe that helps...

I think OLC is fine (a form of soaring social media really) but the comparisons made between individual flights or comparing annual "flying site mileage," etc are fairly (leaning towards completely) meaningless.

Online Contest? Not really. Not at all in fact. Online NON CONTEST. Or Online "not objective in any way." These are more fitting names. I have heard OLC referred to as "online pointlessness." Yes, I laughed.

I think a new, improved website that has better rules and requirements (such as a set task each day for each location and with a set or coordinated start times) would be much more interesting and far more valuable to the sport of soaring.

OLC has always felt intellectually lazy to me. I think so much more is possible. I'm many ways OLC has done damage.

Sean
7T

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 7:02:34 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
Even OLC produces arguments about rules and fairness. I love it!

This is the problem with OLC and this is why I stopped contributing my flights regularly. It's fairly meaningless. I have lost interest. Comparing flights in two locations has zero objective value. Comparing flights on the same day (same location) in which one pilot tries N and the other S (for example) is meaningless. Comparing a flying site with a ridge or a "big air" western location vs a midwestern flatland location is meaningless. Pilots who launch early are going to get more miles obviously. Pilots who have a motor-glider can take more risk with potentially less hassle and fly father, later, no doubt.

But who cares?

This is why organized contests are so nice. Contest are the only means available to "level set" the many variables and make the flight comparisons between pilots valuable. Contest come in many flavors of objective value (FAI, US rules, Grand Prix). OLC is quite counter to the idea of objective measurement. It was fun for me a season or so until I realized that it was fairly pointless. No I almost never bother to upload a flight. What is the point? What is the value of uploading a flights to OLC? What does it prove. The only value for me was a logbook really. For me, just knowing for myself how the flight went (what went well, what I missed, what was learned) is enough. To share it on OLC or compare it with a pilot in TX or "wherever" (even a pilot flying at my home site on the same day) means little to nothing.

In terms of technical issues, I have never had any issues adding a flight or with my account although I do support the site with the recommended annual donations (smiley). Maybe that helps...

I think OLC is fine (a form of soaring social media really) but the comparisons made between individual flights or comparing annual "flying site mileage," etc are fairly (leaning towards completely) meaningless.

Online Contest? Not really. Not at all in fact. Online NON CONTEST. Or Online "not objective in any way." These are more fitting names. I have heard OLC referred to as "online pointlessness." Yes, I laughed.

I think a new, improved website that has better rules and requirements (such as a set task each day for each location and with a set or coordinated start times) would be much more interesting and far more valuable to the sport of soaring.

OLC has always felt intellectually lazy to me. I think so much more is possible. I'm many ways OLC has done damage.

Sean
7T

Sean - First, great job in Benalla under very difficult conditions! I also appreciated your various updates from the contest.

Second, I agree with many of your thoughts on the OLC. Just one question, I have also thought that there were some real negative effects of the OLC that people do not talk about and I was wondering in what ways you believe it has done damage. Please tell us your thoughts on this!
Thanks again - Renny

Thanks.

Hannes from OLC got back to me and told me there was a "big fat bug" and
that he would fix it. He did! I'll still take your advice and switch
to a gmail address.

Thanks to all who had advice to try.

Dan

On 1/29/2017 9:44 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 6:43:42 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
I've been trying for over a year to get the OLC people to fix my login.
I've filled out their help forms too many times to count and they don't
reply and they don't fix the problem. As it stands now, I can not
upload my flights to OLC. When I log in I get a message that states (in
German) that my email address is not valid. But it is valid. And I am
logged on successfully. Then, when I select to upload a flight, I get
the same message stating that my email address is invalid.

Is there anyone listening at OLC? Is there anyone in Europe who can
contact them on my behalf? My email address is
. It is a valid address.

Since I can no longer upload flights, I won't be providing financial
support any more unless it's fixed. Too bad, since I'm currently number
1 at Moriarty and number 14 in the USA.

--
Dan, 5J
I had the exact same problem and a frustratingly similar experience until I was given a tip, there's an issue using our Earthlink.net e-mail addresses on OLC (I use one also). Register for a free gmail address, change your OLC account to use that address and you'll be in business within 5 minutes. While I'd far prefer to use my earthlink address like I do for everything else, OLC doesn't seem to support them or say anything about this issue in their FAQs. Make the change and you'll be good to go.

Chuck

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 8:02:34 AM UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
Even OLC produces arguments about rules and fairness. I love it!

This is the problem with OLC and this is why I stopped contributing my flights regularly. It's fairly meaningless. I have lost interest. Comparing flights in two locations has zero objective value. Comparing flights on the same day (same location) in which one pilot tries N and the other S (for example) is meaningless. Comparing a flying site with a ridge or a "big air" western location vs a midwestern flatland location is meaningless. Pilots who launch early are going to get more miles obviously. Pilots who have a motor-glider can take more risk with potentially less hassle and fly father, later, no doubt.

But who cares?

This is why organized contests are so nice. Contest are the only means available to "level set" the many variables and make the flight comparisons between pilots valuable. Contest come in many flavors of objective value (FAI, US rules, Grand Prix). OLC is quite counter to the idea of objective measurement. It was fun for me a season or so until I realized that it was fairly pointless. No I almost never bother to upload a flight. What is the point? What is the value of uploading a flights to OLC? What does it prove. The only value for me was a logbook really. For me, just knowing for myself how the flight went (what went well, what I missed, what was learned) is enough. To share it on OLC or compare it with a pilot in TX or "wherever" (even a pilot flying at my home site on the same day) means little to nothing.

In terms of technical issues, I have never had any issues adding a flight or with my account although I do support the site with the recommended annual donations (smiley). Maybe that helps...

I think OLC is fine (a form of soaring social media really) but the comparisons made between individual flights or comparing annual "flying site mileage," etc are fairly (leaning towards completely) meaningless.

Online Contest? Not really. Not at all in fact. Online NON CONTEST. Or Online "not objective in any way." These are more fitting names. I have heard OLC referred to as "online pointlessness." Yes, I laughed.

I think a new, improved website that has better rules and requirements (such as a set task each day for each location and with a set or coordinated start times) would be much more interesting and far more valuable to the sport of soaring.

OLC has always felt intellectually lazy to me. I think so much more is possible. I'm many ways OLC has done damage.

Sean
7T

Come on now, Sean. You are writing from your newly anointed lofty position as a World Championship competitor (my kudos, btw.). Why **** on the parade of all the happy pilots who feel emboldened and cheered on by the recognition of their peers after posting a string of or a single great flight? OLC has done more to promote x-country flying around the world than any single other vehicle, including badges, contests, what-have-you. Our sport would be poorer without it and your comment does make it in fact poorer. I would also like to hear where the damage and carnage is in having the option of posting one's flight to OLC. In my experience OLC is a path to contest flying for many new pilots and it makes them naturally becoming interested in going to Regionals. Calling the contest and with it the participants "intellectually lazy" is quite arrogant.
Herb, J7

OLC regards IGC files as their intellectual property. This means they are sitting on a very large basis for numerical analysis, and nobody can use it.

This is why I got involved with Skylines. I run a backup for the IGC files. Anyone wanting a dump, can contact me.

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 12:12:48 PM UTC-6, wrote:
OLC regards IGC files as their intellectual property. This means they are sitting on a very large basis for numerical analysis, and nobody can use it.

This is why I got involved with Skylines. I run a backup for the IGC files. Anyone wanting a dump, can contact me.

I can download any OLC trace that is of interest to me. It may be time consuming to get large numbers of files but how many of us are really affected by this? Have you tried to get file dumps from Facebook or Google? Good luck with that. If you get a free service these days better be prepared for restrictions.
Herb

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 10:12:48 AM UTC-8, wrote:
OLC regards IGC files as their intellectual property. This means they are sitting on a very large basis for numerical analysis, and nobody can use it.

This is why I got involved with Skylines. I run a backup for the IGC files. Anyone wanting a dump, can contact me.

The characterization of OLC as social media is accurate, and where's the harm? I like being able to download other's flights in the area on the day, to see what else I might have done. It isn't a race in the traditional use of the word, but then neither are most sailplane competitions (including Bernalla) which most sports would call a time trial.

Downloading the entire library of IGC files from OLC can be done with a number of readily available tools, or you could write your own with 20 minutes work.