Open Cirrus

Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:28:03 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

This glider is a real pussy cat, stall characteristics are very benign, including spin entry.
I find the roll rate a little on the slow side, with heavy stick input.
Where I do most of my flying (Western Washington) this bird really shines in the mountains and ridges with it’s low sink rate, and fairly good L/D, which helps getting back home(or, at least out of the jaws of the Cascades).. After taking ownership, I had the drogue chute removed, and a new wt. and balance. Overall, this is a fun ship to fly with no
bad flight characteristics, for a first generation glass ship.

Dan

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 5:28:03 PM UTC-6, Duster wrote:
Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

Looks like the old site's been abandoned as the domain's for sale.
There is a Yahoo group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Cirrus/?tab=s

The German builds are fine. The VTC builds are speed restricted. CG hook only unless later modified somehow. Wings are heavy for some, so standard cautions regarding good trailer setup and rigging aids.

I've heard that a couple of people have had in-flight issues with the original seat back.

The rudder cables can become fish hooked and cut into the guides under the seat. Rudder pedals should adjust easily.

Flies and handles great. I had one with the extended wing tips which gave it really long legs. Will bring you home most days.

Frank Whiteley

I've owned one for about 8 years now. As others have posted, it's a very benign handling glider. Comparatively slow and heavy in roll, though booting in full rudder helps if you need to force your way into a thermal (I believe this might induce some wing drop, but doesn't risk a stall or spin in my experience if you're at around 50kt). It soars better than anything else at my club apart from the K6E, where we're about even.

1. Quite a roomy cockpit unless you're tall. I'm just under 6' 2", and I removed the hammock seat to give myself enough headroom. I'm quite happy about that because the hammock seat can move your position on the launch, which could be scary when winching. Hard cushions are better.

2. This is an old design (1967) and so the airfoil doesn't take kindly to hooliganing around the sky. 50kt best glide, 50 kt (+ 1/2 wind)landing, 60-65 kts if you're feeling aggressive (in UK conditions - maybe with 10kt thermal averages you can go faster, but in the UK a 4-5kt average day is a very good one).

3. Speed control on the approach is important as the airbrakes are weak compared to more modern designs. An extra 10 kts can double your landing distance. Of course, the tailchute can help you here, but ...

4. Tailchute is fairly reliable, but I've discovered the modes of rigging it so it won't deploy, or falls off. You need an extra 5kt to use it, so if it doesn't work see (3) above. I've practised opening it at low key (abeam landing point on downwind), and flying a curved approach works though feels scary at one point - my theory is that if it doesn't deploy in a field landing I have enough time to work out an improved arrival. Having said all that, I've never needed it in a real field landing (energy management is key)..

5. Stalling and spinning are docile, though with the wheel down the buffet is less noticeable. The only potential gotcha on spins is that (in mine at least) the rudder feels like it is on the stops when you have an inch more to go. And you need that last inch, at which point it recovers immediately. Thus FULL opposite rudder, and push through any resistance.

6. The wings are very heavy, but with two wing tip trestles it's a fairly easy two-man rig. I rig mine single-handed using two wide wing tip trestles, a wing root trestle, and a mid-wing dolly to take the weight.


7. You can go a long way in an Open Cirrus if you're patient and don't rush it. Keep the speed down, fly energy lines, and 30km without thermalling would be common. I work on 40:1 for final glide @ 50kt (claimed L/D is 44:1) and that gives me a small margin. If you can see the airfield you're in gliding range, unless you hit heavy sink or it'son a hill top.

If your style of flying is to go places, without rushing and turning as little as possible, it will suit you. If you want snappy handling and to fly fast between thermals, it won't.

On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:28:03 AM UTC+1, Duster wrote:
Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

I forgot to add that aerotowing using the CG hook is a complete non-event (at least if you have a tailwheel - no experience of a Cirrus with a skid). No tendency to PIO and it follows the tug nicely.

On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:28:03 AM UTC+1, Duster wrote:
Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

Our club has one. We have had problems with the gear being reluctant to deploy airborne. Is there anything in particular we should do to make the gear come down easier. We've lubed everything and it cycles fine on the ground.

ALL;

Yes the website is down, but the message board works. Contact me
direct with any questions, or go to the link below to subscribe:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Cirrus/

Aerodyne
Open Cirrus message board moderator
Cirrus S/N 80, "660"

On Jul 2, 11:12*pm, aerodyne wrote:
ALL;

Yes the website is down, but the message board works. *Contact me
direct with any questions, or go to the link below to subscribe:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Cirrus/

Aerodyne
Open Cirrus message board moderator
Cirrus S/N 80, "660"

And for what it is worth, you can access a shot of that website using
www.waybackmachine.com. All that is there is not lost. It will be
recovered. Sometime.

On Monday, July 2, 2012 2:01:04 PM UTC-7, ProfChrisReed wrote:
I've owned one for about 8 years now. As others have posted, it's a very benign handling glider. Comparatively slow and heavy in roll, though booting in full rudder helps if you need to force your way into a thermal (I believe this might induce some wing drop, but doesn't risk a stall or spin in my experience if you're at around 50kt). It soars better than anything else at my club apart from the K6E, where we're about even.

1. Quite a roomy cockpit unless you're tall. I'm just under 6' 2", and I removed the hammock seat to give myself enough headroom. I'm quite happy about that because the hammock seat can move your position on the launch, which could be scary when winching. Hard cushions are better.

2. This is an old design (1967) and so the airfoil doesn't take kindly to hooliganing around the sky. 50kt best glide, 50 kt (+ 1/2 wind)landing, 60-65 kts if you're feeling aggressive (in UK conditions - maybe with 10kt thermal averages you can go faster, but in the UK a 4-5kt average day is a very good one).

3. Speed control on the approach is important as the airbrakes are weak compared to more modern designs. An extra 10 kts can double your landing distance. Of course, the tailchute can help you here, but ...

4. Tailchute is fairly reliable, but I've discovered the modes of rigging it so it won't deploy, or falls off. You need an extra 5kt to use it, so if it doesn't work see (3) above. I've practised opening it at low key (abeam landing point on downwind), and flying a curved approach works though feels scary at one point - my theory is that if it doesn't deploy in a field landing I have enough time to work out an improved arrival. Having said all that, I've never needed it in a real field landing (energy management is key).

5. Stalling and spinning are docile, though with the wheel down the buffet is less noticeable. The only potential gotcha on spins is that (in mine at least) the rudder feels like it is on the stops when you have an inch more to go. And you need that last inch, at which point it recovers immediately. Thus FULL opposite rudder, and push through any resistance.

6. The wings are very heavy, but with two wing tip trestles it's a fairly easy two-man rig. I rig mine single-handed using two wide wing tip trestles, a wing root trestle, and a mid-wing dolly to take the weight.


7. You can go a long way in an Open Cirrus if you're patient and don't rush it. Keep the speed down, fly energy lines, and 30km without thermalling would be common. I work on 40:1 for final glide @ 50kt (claimed L/D is 44:1) and that gives me a small margin. If you can see the airfield you're in gliding range, unless you hit heavy sink or it'son a hill top.

If your style of flying is to go places, without rushing and turning as little as possible, it will suit you. If you want snappy handling and to fly fast between thermals, it won't.

On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:28:03 AM UTC+1, Duster wrote:
Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

I'm considering a seriously upgraded Open Cirrus as my first sailplane in 20 years. I have about 500 Ka6 hours. Is the roll rate just a little slow or REALLY slow. (Any idea what the 45-45 rate actually is?)
Also, I'm a little concerned about the dive brakes though I usually fly locally out of Minden and if you can't hit that runway, you shouldn't be flying.
Any commments appreciated Thanx

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 7:28:03 PM UTC-4, Duster wrote:
Any thoughts on flight characteristics of the Open Cirrus? There used
to be a website covering this glider, but it doesn't appear to be
active since last year.

Thanks,
Mike

My club had one and I flew it quite a bit off the winch and aero-tow. Both are non-events although it is impressive to see these floppy wings flex during the winch launch.
I don't agree with the notion that the drogue chute is unreliable! I used it on just about every landing just for fun. The key is to keep it dry, aired out and packed correctly. It WILL deploy. I saw one Cirrus that had its chute not deployed since it thermaled last with Pterodactyls. It was all stuck together, wadded up and came out in one chunk. It is an operator's/owner's error if they fail to deploy!
Uli