PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 May 2007 11:13:55 -0500, "Viperdoc"
wrote in
:

I had an instructor slap my hands from the controls and
take over while we taxied up to a parking spot after a check out.

Did your instructor earn his certificate in the '30s. Instructors,
indeed pilots, of that era were expected to be treated as gods. At
least that has been my experience.

Was he a military instructor at one time?

Military instructors in most cases don't use normal (or what you as a
civilian would consider normal) teaching practices when giving dual. First
of all, there isn't time for good "civilian style" teaching practice.
Everything in the military is on a strict time line basis. The instructor
throws it out and the student either gets it or he/she doesn't. Also, giving
dual in a T38 isn't the same as giving dual in a Cessna 172. There is little
time in these airplanes for "proper accepted teaching standards :-)
Its not an optimum teaching situation at all, and indeed it's not meant to
be. The objective in military flight instruction is geared as much toward
weeding out those who can't get it the first time through the door as it is
in teaching the student to fly the airplane.
If anything, the military IP is actually placing obstacles in front of the
student for the student to trip over. If the student trips, its all over.
What I'm describing here is far away from the civilian teaching methods as
we know them, and perhaps helps explain why the instructors trained under
the military system were the way they were in the "old days".
In short, the way these military IP's were teaching in the civilian market
wasn't necessarily the way it should have been, but it was understandable
considering their training at the time.
Dudley Henriques

He was not and never was a military instructor. I have flown in T-37s,
F-16s, and KC-135s with IPs. Some were better than others, but none of them
ever slapped my hands (admittedly hard to do in a 16), and all were better
than this guy.

This guy was just a macho individual, and this was his style of interaction
with students. I later asked him some question about the commercial rating
when I ran into him in the FBO, and later learned that he totally blew smoke
and was completely wrong.

He clearly didn't have the maturity or self confidence to admit that he
didn't know the answer, or possibly could be wrong. In my opinion this is a
dangerous attitude, whether it comes from a pilot or a surgeon (my real
profession)

Regardless, I never flew with him again.

Dudley Henriques wrote
Military instructors in most cases don't use normal (or what you as a
civilian would consider normal) teaching practices when giving dual.

Dudley, were you either a student or instructor in the military?

Bob Moore

Viperdoc wrote
... [A CFI Viperdoc once flew with] clearly didn't have the maturity
or self confidence to admit that he didn't know the answer, or possibly
could be wrong. In my opinion this is a dangerous attitude, whether it
comes from a pilot or a surgeon (my real profession)

Is there a surgeon somewhere who will admit that he or she, "possibly could
be wrong?" g

Only when there aren't any patients around.

"Bob Moore" wrote in message
46.128...
Dudley Henriques wrote
Military instructors in most cases don't use normal (or what you as a
civilian would consider normal) teaching practices when giving dual.

Dudley, were you either a student or instructor in the military?

Bob Moore

I never quite know how to read your posts to me Moore, so I'll just assume
this isn't the opening gambit in a hostile Usenet chess game and reply as
neutrally as I can.

I was a civilian instructor specializing in flying, demonstrating, and
instructing in high performance military fighter aircraft. I probably know
as many pilots who were military instructors as anyone on the planet and
have spent at least as much time learning from and teaching these pilots as
I have spent in the civilian market.
I hope this answers your "question"
Dudley Henriques

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
Only when there aren't any patients around.


...............and lawyers for sure!!! :-)
Dudley Henriques

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
He was not and never was a military instructor. I have flown in T-37s,
F-16s, and KC-135s with IPs. Some were better than others, but none of
them ever slapped my hands (admittedly hard to do in a 16), and all were
better than this guy.

This guy was just a macho individual, and this was his style of
interaction with students. I later asked him some question about the
commercial rating when I ran into him in the FBO, and later learned that
he totally blew smoke and was completely wrong.

He clearly didn't have the maturity or self confidence to admit that he
didn't know the answer, or possibly could be wrong. In my opinion this is
a dangerous attitude, whether it comes from a pilot or a surgeon (my real
profession)

Regardless, I never flew with him again.

I don't blame you. I wouldn't have flown again with him either.
As an aside, some of the military IP's I've been associated with
professionally, especially fighter lead in IP's, were some of the finest
pilots I've ever had the privilege of working with.
Dudley Henriques

No one is perfect, and I don't know why some people can't
accept the fact that I'm not...

You're right. No one IS perfect, but the job of the flight instructor is NOT
to accept this fact as easily as you obviously accept it from the tone of
your posts. You spend entirely too much time explaining to one and all that not being
perfect is acceptable in a pilot when in fact you should be spending every
minute of your time as a flight instructor doing all in your power to bring
perfection as close to being attainable as possible for your student.

What on earth makes you think I'm not doing this? I'm constantly
refining my skills. Posting and reading messages on this group is part
of that process. And it's a process I'm very familiar with. I got my
CFI with just a little over 250 hours, and over my tenure of
instructing, I've learned almost as much as I've learned as a student
myself. If you think it's a crime to be a CFI without having mastered
every single little minute facet of flying, then I'm not the one to
get mad at. Petition the FAA to get the CFI minimum requirements
raised. Write letters to schools telling them to refuse instructors
who don't have at least 1000 hours total time. I'm not the only one.

Everyone ganged up on me by saying how I should be fired because I
made a mistake. My "I'm only human" defense is a response to those who
say I'm unfit to instruct because I made a mistake. I don't deny it
was my fault; I do not deny I could have done more to avoid the
situation. You choose to conveniently ignore these posts and instead
CONTINUE maintain the opinion that I'm some kind of cowboy moron with
no regard for safety or my students education. Just admit it, there is
nothing can say or do that will change you mind about me as an
instructor. This exactly why I choose not to use my real name here.

My intent is not to excuse myself from having to learn anything from
the situation. Anyways, in my OP I only mentioned the incident to
illustrate how radio rudeness can effect others. I made no statement
of fault or dismissiveness. When others brought it up, I chimed in to
say, "yeah I probably could have done some more, but whats done is
done" All these your cries of "you are an unfit instructor because you
don't accept responsibility", "you could have used this as a way to
teach your student, BUT INSTEAD YOU SAID NOTHING TO YOUR STUDENT AND
JUST CAME HERE TO WHINE" and "you're just writing it all off as
someone else's fault" are completely made up by you. It boggles my
mind that someone could be so mindless...

You have proven to me over and over again that you're just not to
discuss aviation safety, instructional competence, radio politeness,
or pattern etiquette at all. You're just here to follow me around,
reading between the lines to try and come up with ways to "prove" I'm
a bad instructor. No matter what I post you're going to find something
wrong with it, whether it's true or not. You don't care about any of
these things. You're just here to toot your horn about how gifted an
instuctor you THINK are, and how anyone who disagrees, is CLEARLY a
reckless moron.

If you don't understand this one single all important concept, and are
unable to pass it on to a student pilot, in my opnion you are SERIOUSLY
lacking in the basic fundementals of proper flight instruction.
You should NEVER...and I repeat it again for you....EVER.....accept an error
made in the air by you, your student, or any other pilot as simply the fact
that "no one is perfect". This loigic has no place in
aviation.......ESPECIALLY professional aviation.......and MOST CERTAINLY not
in the CFI's deductive reasoning.
Dudley Henriques

I'll say it once mo Get over yourself.

I can see we're at the inevitable impasse here, so I'll just disengage from
you at this point if possible and let this go.
Perhaps we'll meet again over on the student group. I can't say I'll be
looking forward to it.
:-))
Have a nice day.
Dudley Henriques


"buttman" wrote in message
ps.com...
No one is perfect, and I don't know why some people can't
accept the fact that I'm not...

You're right. No one IS perfect, but the job of the flight instructor is
NOT
to accept this fact as easily as you obviously accept it from the tone of
your posts. You spend entirely too much time explaining to one and all
that not being
perfect is acceptable in a pilot when in fact you should be spending
every
minute of your time as a flight instructor doing all in your power to
bring
perfection as close to being attainable as possible for your student.

What on earth makes you think I'm not doing this? I'm constantly
refining my skills. Posting and reading messages on this group is part
of that process. And it's a process I'm very familiar with. I got my
CFI with just a little over 250 hours, and over my tenure of
instructing, I've learned almost as much as I've learned as a student
myself. If you think it's a crime to be a CFI without having mastered
every single little minute facet of flying, then I'm not the one to
get mad at. Petition the FAA to get the CFI minimum requirements
raised. Write letters to schools telling them to refuse instructors
who don't have at least 1000 hours total time. I'm not the only one.

Everyone ganged up on me by saying how I should be fired because I
made a mistake. My "I'm only human" defense is a response to those who
say I'm unfit to instruct because I made a mistake. I don't deny it
was my fault; I do not deny I could have done more to avoid the
situation. You choose to conveniently ignore these posts and instead
CONTINUE maintain the opinion that I'm some kind of cowboy moron with
no regard for safety or my students education. Just admit it, there is
nothing can say or do that will change you mind about me as an
instructor. This exactly why I choose not to use my real name here.

My intent is not to excuse myself from having to learn anything from
the situation. Anyways, in my OP I only mentioned the incident to
illustrate how radio rudeness can effect others. I made no statement
of fault or dismissiveness. When others brought it up, I chimed in to
say, "yeah I probably could have done some more, but whats done is
done" All these your cries of "you are an unfit instructor because you
don't accept responsibility", "you could have used this as a way to
teach your student, BUT INSTEAD YOU SAID NOTHING TO YOUR STUDENT AND
JUST CAME HERE TO WHINE" and "you're just writing it all off as
someone else's fault" are completely made up by you. It boggles my
mind that someone could be so mindless...

You have proven to me over and over again that you're just not to
discuss aviation safety, instructional competence, radio politeness,
or pattern etiquette at all. You're just here to follow me around,
reading between the lines to try and come up with ways to "prove" I'm
a bad instructor. No matter what I post you're going to find something
wrong with it, whether it's true or not. You don't care about any of
these things. You're just here to toot your horn about how gifted an
instuctor you THINK are, and how anyone who disagrees, is CLEARLY a
reckless moron.

If you don't understand this one single all important concept, and are
unable to pass it on to a student pilot, in my opnion you are SERIOUSLY
lacking in the basic fundementals of proper flight instruction.
You should NEVER...and I repeat it again for you....EVER.....accept an
error
made in the air by you, your student, or any other pilot as simply the
fact
that "no one is perfect". This loigic has no place in
aviation.......ESPECIALLY professional aviation.......and MOST CERTAINLY
not
in the CFI's deductive reasoning.
Dudley Henriques

I'll say it once mo Get over yourself.