CBS "News" strikes AGAIN

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
news
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

2) Dig out all you can about the Montessori method

Some kids do better with this, some worse.

Since it is basic fundemantals, why would some do worse?

I don't know.

Keeping interested, involved, and supportive of your children and
their
education is always a good thing.

And teaching them to think for themselves and not be beholden to any
agency.


And still be respectful and be able to work with said agancy. You must
learn to follow before you can learn to lead.

One has noting to do with the other. You may be thinking of "One must learn
ot follow orders before one can command".

Command and leadership are not necessarily the same. In the same vein, one
can command obedience, but not respect...that must be earned.

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

How so were they great or not so great?

Ah, flexibility is a lot of it. That is, being able to get a wide range
of
kids to grasp and enjoy the material.

And the point is that now matter how much they like to terach or how
much
_desire_ they have, they still don't know HOW the human mind, especially
in
children, grasps data nd makes sense of it.

Children are all different. One size does not fit all.

How they learn specific skills, and how they learn to conceptualize will
likely be different, but that in no way means they can escape learning the
trait the differs humans from other animals.

the aircraft. What a waste of instruction. Good or otherwise. A war story
for every situation.

That's you, all right, Gene! Thanks again for sharing them all!

I wonder if I'll live long enough to have happen to me, everything that can
happen?

Sooner or later one of those "things that can happen" may be "one of
those things that makes you dead" and thus the last "thing" you're
concerned with. :-)

But I for one hope you live to see 160.

Gene

That's the point dufuss, its out of control so folks don't bother to get
technical about the very very few. When things are so screwed up and to the
extreme that our system is nothing more than government learning centers,
who give a crap about the very few. They don't matter at this point. Do
the math then decide when to use your favorite ancient word phrases that
most of us would rather frequent at some engineers annual meeting.

huh?

what basis are those claims made by?

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Judah" wrote in message
...
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:


"Jordan" wrote in message
...

If we have to have celebrity endorsement, then our nation is too brain
dead to endure and is finished.

That's what happens when teachers make minimum wage, and celebrities
make
$100,000 an episode...

Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education" is
now BY ROTE.

That's the point dufuss, its out of control so folks don't bother to get
technical about the very very few. When things are so screwed up and to the
extreme that our system is nothing more than government learning centers,
who give a crap about the very few. They don't matter at this point. Do
the math then decide when to use your favorite ancient word phrases that
most of us would rather frequent at some engineers annual meeting.





"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
Howdy!

In article ,
Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Jim" wrote:
I think our liberal media is chastising the government for not
doing anything so they can chastise them again if they do.

It's got nothing to do with liberal or conservative: Fox was shrieking
as loud as the rest.

Dan, Your capacity for critical thinking and differentiation is
remarkable....when it suits your preconceived notions.

Boy isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, Mr. Teachers-are-
worthless-pieces-of-****. I suppose your opinion here is one of an
expert in the field.

yours,
Michael


--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

Howdy!

In article ,
Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Michael Houghton" wrote in message
...
Howyd!

In article ,
Tom Sixkiller wrote:

"Judah" wrote in message
.. .
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in
:

[snip]

Teachers hardly make minimun wage. Even if we paid them $100K, they don't
know _how_ to teach (besides being beholden to the unions). Further, even
those who LOVE to teach, still miss HOW the human mind learns and grasps
information in the form of concepts. That's why most all of "education"
is
now BY ROTE.

Bull****. You don't even bother to slip in a weasely "most"; you simply
tar all teachers with your calumny.

Well, if in sending my kids to public schools all these years (they're all
in or past college now) I'd seen even ONE that comprehended HOW the young
minds grasps knowledge I'd say "most". That's not been me experience.

....so on the basis of your limited sample, you assert a universal condition.
As I said, "bull****". You seem to suggest, as well, that children all learn
the same way. More bogon flux. If they all learned the same way, wouldn't you
think there would be greater uniformity in educational approaches? Instead,
we have Montessori (works for some, but not for others), boot camps, etc.

You show no grasp of the lameness of your claim.


I won't deny that there are a significant number of teachers whose ability
to teach is questionable, but many teachers actually give a damn about
their
students, doing their best to *teach*. Oh, and "rote learning" is not so
nearly ubiquitous as you would claim.

"Giving a damn" is completely worthless if they don't know _HOW_ it works.

Huh?

Your tirade is so full of manure that it is laughable -- or would be if
you weren't expressing a range of opinions that are painfully common.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Is that the best you can come up with? You don't offer meaningful substance
to your outlandish claims. You are just blathering.

yours,
Michael


--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

Howdy!

In article , wrote:
That's the point dufuss, its out of control so folks don't bother to get
technical about the very very few. When things are so screwed up and to the
extreme that our system is nothing more than government learning centers,
who give a crap about the very few. They don't matter at this point. Do
the math then decide when to use your favorite ancient word phrases that
most of us would rather frequent at some engineers annual meeting.

Excuse me. Did I use words you don't understand? Words with more than one
syllable? Did you reply to the wrong post? I can't relate your incomprehensible
tirade to what I wrote.

yours,
Michael
--
Michael and MJ Houghton | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:04:48 -0700, "Tom Sixkiller"
wrote:


"Mike H" wrote in message
...
I've stayed out of this so far, but....
I'd say the biggest determination of a successful
education is the involvement of the parent(s).

That helps, but, for example, learning to fly will go no where if your
instructor doesn;t know what makes and airplane fly.


Next comes
the child themselves and the type of school is last. (There
are good and bad teachers in all kinds of schools.)

Again...the basis of human learning and knowledge has not been a part of the
schools of education (other than pragmatic guessing games with the kids a
guinna pigs) for a couple generations.


My 'credentials' are purely to have raised two sons, educated
through the public school system. One of which now has
dual BS degrees and the other is about to get his Phd from
Emory Univ. That, and a lot of observing why some
children had problems and others did not....

Have you ever notice what's referred to as the "educated idiot"? I'm sure we
all have. Ever wonder why that is?

Tom, I've stayed out of this so far because you always seem to be on
the edge when it comes to "discussion", and most responses always seem
to degenerate to name calling. But like some others in this group,
I'm married to a career teacher and this gives us an insight that
should be beneficial to this discussion. Guess what the starting
salary for teachers is up here in Vermont?: about $18,000 - $20,000.

Mike has it absolutely correct in that the single greatest influence
in the development and education of the child is not the teacher or
the school, it's the parents.

If the parents do not interact with the child, or disparage the school
in front of them, or "go to bat" for the child when he/she misbehaves
in school rather than make the attempt to correct the behavior that
caused the disruption in the first place (MY Johnny wouldn't beat up
anyone) then there is no hope for that child to gain a viable
education in that school no matter who is teaching, and that kid is
going to have problems throughout school.

In addition, my wife used to meet with parents and children to see if
they are ready to enter Kindergarten. How was that determined? It
had to do with the childs development, both mentally and physically.
If the parent forces the issue and demands that the child enter before
he/she is ready, bad things happen. The child ends up constantly
behind everyone else because they simply aren't ready to learn at the
proper level yet. Again, it doesn't matter who is teaching, God
wouldn't make a difference if the child just isn't developmentally
ready to learn.

This goes for the upper grades too. The huge problem is that children
develop at different speeds. No two children are exactly the same and
the teacher must teach each child at his or her different level,
regardless which grade. Some teachers do this well, others don't.

The big thing you are missing with regards your diatribe against
teachers is that every single one must complete a college education.
If you complete that college education but did not major in the
education field, then you must either then take more courses in
education, or spend many years apprenticing before you become
certified. If you want a higher salary, you must further your
education. My wife has a masters in education and still makes only
about $30,000. Think about that for a minute. Teachers are tasked
with what may be the most important job on earth, teaching children so
that they have the skills to be successfull in life. Are they paid
commesurate of their responsibility?

Corky Scott

Although it's not specifically stated as a right in the US
Constitution, the right to travel freely in your own country (without
"papers"), is generally believed to be a fundamental right. The right
to travel freely is also a benchmark for a measure of freedom in all
countries. Both Nazi Germany and the Communist system required
"papers" to travel from one city to the next. I dread the day when I
land at the airport, and a uniformed officer comes up to me and says,
"papers please". It will be a major loss of a fundamental right.

Now, things ARE different in war. But we can't have "continual" war,
as the "war on terrorism" or the "cold war". I can accept temporary
restrictions during a crisis (gasoline rationing in WWII, sugar
rationing, restricted travel, blackout curtains along the east coast
etc), but not permanent or semi-permanent ones. If we are in a cold
war, sorry, we HAVE to go back to having our fundamental rights and
take some risk of a terrorist attack, which, by the way, there is no
way of preventing with complete certainty.

There has been one terroist attack on the US. And it was terrible.
4000 people lost there lives. But there are over 60,000 deaths due to
car accidents a year. Just how much freedom are you willing to give
up?

The "homeland sucurity" advocates make the argument, "but yes, we
could have a nuclear attack, wouldn't you give up your freedom to
travel for preventing such attack?" BUT their security measures don't
make such a guarantee. With the draconian travel restrictions we give
up our freedom to travel and STILL are under a threat of attack.

There are things they can do. Baggage matching, baggage scanning,
linking visa data with Social Security data etc, to keep tabs on
visitors to our country. Most of these actions limit our freedom to
travel very little. So do those things. But don't start asking me for
"papers please". We can't go there.