Garmin 196: Anyone else dissapointed in the actual ability to capture sats

CJ Campbell - You posted below on the Bonanza thread.

The external antenna on Garmins is an active design that takes extra DC
power across the coax to power an amplifier in the antenna. If running on
batteries, the battery life will be less with the external. They perform
better because of amplification in addition to having a better view of the
sky. I suppose the physical construction of the antenna is also better for
reception even without drawing power since it can be larger.

Ron Anderson


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
I have never seen the 196 take more than a few seconds to lock on. I think
there is something wrong with your stick antenna. I would send it back if it
is still under warranty. One thing you could try is to borrow somebody
else's antenna and see if it works any better.

The stick antenna and the remote antenna are basically the same and should
perform the same. The only reason for the remote is to give you increased
flexibility in antenna location.

My own handheld GPS is a 295, which I will keep until a '296' comes out.
Several people here at PAVCO use the 196, though, and they are thrilled with
it. A lot of the students and renters use it, too.

Mike,
I have used my 196 on the yoke of rented Archer and in my citabria. In
the archer it fires up and locks very quickly. In the citabria, it
never gets waas and sometimes loses satelites. In the citabria however,
it's in a lousy spot for reception. I haven't used the remote antenna
because I have a king gps/com in the panel (I bought the 196 before I
bought the airplane). I guess the moral of the story is, use the
remote if you need to. I really prefer not to use it because I don't
like dealing with the wire. If I went on a crosscountry I'd use the
remote antenna.
Dave
68 7ECA

Mike Z. wrote:

Like a lot of folks here, I debated between the Garmin 295, 196 and the Anywhere Map from Control Vision. I badly wanted a color
unit but couldn't see buying the 295 because it has to be due for replacement. Witness the nice, non battery eating screens of the
new Street Pilot and the 76C handhelds.

Well, with a little trip coming up, I couldn't wait for the new units to trickle down so I ordered the Anywhere Map. Pretty cool for
$1350 with a cordless and a couple goodies. But then I immediately set about trying to figure out how to keep the thing charged on
an extended trip without getting the cigar lighter reconnected. Double drat, this is dumb, so I cancelled that order and sent for a
196 from Aircraft Spruce.

It is still cold here so I was playing with the thing in the house and didn't expect it to work inside. Finally after attempting to
use the unit in the car, I became suspicious when I did 6 touch and goes and in spite of pretty good initial readings, it only
recorded 2 flights 1/10hr out of the 6. So I started comparing the performance to my 6 year old GPS II+.

As it turns out, the 196 works pretty darn good with the remote antenna. Almost but not quite as good as the 6 year old II+.

As it also turns out, I can get the sats better with binocs than it does with the stick antenna. Example: this morning, I tried both
units one in each hand this morning, the old handheld had a 3D lock and 6 birds almost full scale in 45 seconds. The 196 had only
2 -1/2 scale open bars after 3 minutes and showed no signs of acquiring more. I had to leave for work and still no lock.

Is this as good as I can expect? The Garmin guy I talked to said the stick should work as well but didn't seem to interested that it
didn't work out that way.

Incidentally, from the top of a 12 story building yesterday, it had 6 sats but took over 15 minutes before it found WAAS on one on
the stick. With the remote it had a D on all 6 in a couple minutes and almost full scale.

Mike Z

"Mike Z." wrote in message thlink.net...
I appreciate the attempts to cure the problem. Interestingly enough, the little cheapy is the one that had been off for weeks and
locked the first try in 30 seconds. The 196 had been on with a 3D fix a couple times for 15-30 minutes for sure.....

Any actual 196 users want to weigh in.

Mike Z

"Nathan Young" wrote in message ...
.stuff snipped

A better comparison would be to leave both GPSs on for several hours,
then switch the GPSs off, then try the lock time comparison.

-Nathan


I have had a 196 since the 3rd week they came out. I have had no
problems with sats or locking. I have it on the yoke of my Arrow, and
the only time I seem to loose sat signal strenth is banking such that
the ant. can't see the sats. or if the sats. are to the rear of the
plane.

I use it in my car on the dashboard without problems as well.

Mike,

I have found the III Plus and III Pilot to sometimes be a little better on
reception. However, the 196 is pretty good.

What I think might be happening is that your 196 does not have a current
almanac and your II+ does.

To use a satellite for navigation, the GPS must have ephemeris data. This
is the fine orbital data. The data is only current for about 30 minutes and
is broadcast every 30 seconds. It takes 18 seconds to download. Every
satellite broadcasts its own ephemeris data.

The almanac is more like rough data from which the GPS can calculate roughly
the location of all the satellites. The GPS uses its last known position,
its internal time, and the almanac to know which satellites to try to
receive when it is turned on. If the internal clock is off, the GPS has
been moved more than 500 miles from its last location, or it does not have a
good almanac, the GPS will be slow to locate a fix. The almanac data takes
12.5 minutes to download, every satellite broadcasts the almanac, and it is
current for something along the order of a month.

It would be possible for the 196 to randomly get enough satellites to fix a
position even without the almanac-- this would be slow as you found out. If
you shut the GPS off before the almanac was loaded, it would be slow to
re-acquire a fix. This sounds like how your 196 is behaving.

Try to let your 196 get a fix and then leave it on. I suppose 30 minutes
would probably be enough, by I would try a little more to be on the safe
side. This should allow it to download a current almanac. It should work
much better after this.

You might also look at:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/gpsfix.htm
http://www.geotips.com/geotip/geotip4.0.htm

As far as the logbook. I forget whether the 196 uses speed or altitude for
starting the time on a flight. However, hold the PAGE button and select
LAND mode when you use it in your car.

Overall, I think the 196 is a very capable piece of hardware. You might
also take a look at my site, www.cockpitgps.com for some more info on using
it.

John Bell

When I had a problem with my 195 after loading a new airport database, I
plugged it into the cigarette lighter, put it on the roof of the car
parked and left it all day... Cured it just fine..
denny
"John Bell" wrote in message
om...
Mike,

I have found the III Plus and III Pilot to sometimes be a little better on
reception. However, the 196 is pretty good.

What I think might be happening is that your 196 does not have a current
almanac and your II+ does.

To use a satellite for navigation, the GPS must have ephemeris data. This
is the fine orbital data. The data is only current for about 30 minutes
and
is broadcast every 30 seconds. It takes 18 seconds to download. Every
satellite broadcasts its own ephemeris data.

The almanac is more like rough data from which the GPS can calculate
roughly
the location of all the satellites. The GPS uses its last known position,
its internal time, and the almanac to know which satellites to try to
receive when it is turned on. If the internal clock is off, the GPS has
been moved more than 500 miles from its last location, or it does not have
a
good almanac, the GPS will be slow to locate a fix. The almanac data
takes
12.5 minutes to download, every satellite broadcasts the almanac, and it
is
current for something along the order of a month.

It would be possible for the 196 to randomly get enough satellites to fix
a
position even without the almanac-- this would be slow as you found out.
If
you shut the GPS off before the almanac was loaded, it would be slow to
re-acquire a fix. This sounds like how your 196 is behaving.

Try to let your 196 get a fix and then leave it on. I suppose 30 minutes
would probably be enough, by I would try a little more to be on the safe
side. This should allow it to download a current almanac. It should work
much better after this.

You might also look at:
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/gpsfix.htm
http://www.geotips.com/geotip/geotip4.0.htm

As far as the logbook. I forget whether the 196 uses speed or altitude
for
starting the time on a flight. However, hold the PAGE button and select
LAND mode when you use it in your car.

Overall, I think the 196 is a very capable piece of hardware. You might
also take a look at my site, www.cockpitgps.com for some more info on
using
it.

John Bell

I bought the ProNav 100 the week it came out (had to wait until the show
ended at OSH, in order for the factory to hand it to me as it was their only
demo.)
I bought the 195 as soon as they came out...
I bought the 196 as soon as they came out...
I like both... The 196 beats the 195 hands down in lockup time, and most
everything else... 196 is on my yoke, the 195 is on the co-pilots yoke...
The ProNav (later Garmin 100) finally died, but it rode the glare shield all
those years...
denny

"Maurice Givens" wrote in message Any actual
196 users want to weigh in.

Mike,
I hooked my remote antenna today, up high on the windscreen. WAAS
locked in fairly quickly. We flew around for about an hour then took a
30 minute break at a nearby airport. When we fired back up WAAS locked
on very quickly. I didn't time it but I guess it only took a couple of
minutes.

Dave
68 7ECA

dave wrote:
Mike,
I have used my 196 on the yoke of rented Archer and in my citabria. In
the archer it fires up and locks very quickly. In the citabria, it
never gets waas and sometimes loses satelites. In the citabria however,
it's in a lousy spot for reception. I haven't used the remote antenna
because I have a king gps/com in the panel (I bought the 196 before I
bought the airplane). I guess the moral of the story is, use the
remote if you need to. I really prefer not to use it because I don't
like dealing with the wire. If I went on a crosscountry I'd use the
remote antenna.
Dave
68 7ECA

Mike Z. wrote:

Like a lot of folks here, I debated between the Garmin 295, 196 and
the Anywhere Map from Control Vision. I badly wanted a color
unit but couldn't see buying the 295 because it has to be due for
replacement. Witness the nice, non battery eating screens of the
new Street Pilot and the 76C handhelds.

Well, with a little trip coming up, I couldn't wait for the new units
to trickle down so I ordered the Anywhere Map. Pretty cool for
$1350 with a cordless and a couple goodies. But then I immediately set
about trying to figure out how to keep the thing charged on
an extended trip without getting the cigar lighter reconnected. Double
drat, this is dumb, so I cancelled that order and sent for a
196 from Aircraft Spruce.

It is still cold here so I was playing with the thing in the house and
didn't expect it to work inside. Finally after attempting to
use the unit in the car, I became suspicious when I did 6 touch and
goes and in spite of pretty good initial readings, it only
recorded 2 flights 1/10hr out of the 6. So I started comparing the
performance to my 6 year old GPS II+.

As it turns out, the 196 works pretty darn good with the remote
antenna. Almost but not quite as good as the 6 year old II+.

As it also turns out, I can get the sats better with binocs than it
does with the stick antenna. Example: this morning, I tried both
units one in each hand this morning, the old handheld had a 3D lock
and 6 birds almost full scale in 45 seconds. The 196 had only
2 -1/2 scale open bars after 3 minutes and showed no signs of
acquiring more. I had to leave for work and still no lock.

Is this as good as I can expect? The Garmin guy I talked to said the
stick should work as well but didn't seem to interested that it
didn't work out that way.

Incidentally, from the top of a 12 story building yesterday, it had 6
sats but took over 15 minutes before it found WAAS on one on
the stick. With the remote it had a D on all 6 in a couple minutes and
almost full scale.

Mike Z

Thanks for all the help. I have been playing with the new toy a lot, setting up routes and so on for the big trip.

1st - I let it 'cook' to load the almanac. I had had it on for a period of time but quite possibly the unit was blanked often
enough that it never actually got a good download.

2nd - Garmin sent a new antenna. Works much better but the remote is still better, naturally.

This is one awesome gadget. I flew some behind a 430 (VFR) and read a good portion of the 430's manual. There isn't much that the
430 would do that the 196 can't. In fact, I find the 196 is more configurable. I get 10 data fields instead of 4. I still love the
color on the 430, but the 196 makes up for it by being portable. I was part owner of the 430 in the winter and never got as
comfortable, even using the computer simulator, as I already am on the 196. If you can work either one, you are 95% of the way there
on the other.

Bottom line, with the remote antenna, this thing is the bomb. It works decently with the stick, even yoke mounted in a 172, but if
you really want a handheld to use in the woods, buy a handheld to use in the woods unless you want to clamp the wire to your hat. In
fact I have one picked out.

And if you want to make your 430 or 196 more intuitive, check out the recent article in Aviation Safety.

Mike Z

"Mike Z." wrote in message hlink.net...
Like a lot of folks here, I debated between the Garmin 295, 196 and the Anywhere Map from Control Vision. I badly wanted a color
unit but couldn't see buying the 295 because it has to be due for replacement. Witness the nice, non battery eating screens of the
new Street Pilot and the 76C handhelds.

Well, with a little trip coming up, I couldn't wait for the new units to trickle down so I ordered the Anywhere Map. Pretty cool
for
$1350 with a cordless and a couple goodies. But then I immediately set about trying to figure out how to keep the thing charged on
an extended trip without getting the cigar lighter reconnected. Double drat, this is dumb, so I cancelled that order and sent for
a
196 from Aircraft Spruce.

It is still cold here so I was playing with the thing in the house and didn't expect it to work inside. Finally after attempting
to
use the unit in the car, I became suspicious when I did 6 touch and goes and in spite of pretty good initial readings, it only
recorded 2 flights 1/10hr out of the 6. So I started comparing the performance to my 6 year old GPS II+.

As it turns out, the 196 works pretty darn good with the remote antenna. Almost but not quite as good as the 6 year old II+.

As it also turns out, I can get the sats better with binocs than it does with the stick antenna. Example: this morning, I tried
both
units one in each hand this morning, the old handheld had a 3D lock and 6 birds almost full scale in 45 seconds. The 196 had only
2 -1/2 scale open bars after 3 minutes and showed no signs of acquiring more. I had to leave for work and still no lock.

Is this as good as I can expect? The Garmin guy I talked to said the stick should work as well but didn't seem to interested that
it
didn't work out that way.

Incidentally, from the top of a 12 story building yesterday, it had 6 sats but took over 15 minutes before it found WAAS on one on
the stick. With the remote it had a D on all 6 in a couple minutes and almost full scale.

Mike Z

I was going to write a quick summary of some of my top techniques, but I am
off to work and do not have time. I have more info on how to actually use
the 196 (or any GPS) on my website at www.cockpitgps.com. Since my book is
a free download, I don't consider this to be to bad of a spam.

Good luck,

John Bell
www.cockpitgps.com

Mike,

Glad you got your 196 to work. I had made a quick post in response to your
posting as I was walking out the door for a trip, but I do not see it. It
might be a problem with my reader, but who knows.

I've got some more information on using GPS on my website at
www.cockpitgps.com. Many of the examples use the 196.

The book is a free download. Voluntary payments are accepted, but my
minimum payment is that you sign my guestbook or drop me a note if you find
the info interesting. My purpose in writing this is not to spam you with my
site though.

My book has screen shots, but here are some of the main points of using the
GPS:

One of the keys to exploiting the GPS is that it gives you a value for the
direction of your path over the ground, TRACK. If you compare your TRACK to
the direction that you need to go, BEARING, and make heading corrections
based on this you will go directly to the waypoint regardless of the wind.

On the Garmin 196, I suggest you use the map display as the primary
interface. The map provides situational awareness and the data fields
provide precision. If you set a data field to TURN (BEARING - TRACK) this
will tell you how much to adjust your heading to go directly to the
waypoint. I like TURN, XTK, DISTANCE, and NEXT WPT as the primary fields.
On the 196, the XTK direction is the direction the aircraft is relative to
the course. This is the opposite of most needles which tell you which
direction that you need to go.

If you go with the HSI display with the map instead of the data fields: go
to the HSI page, press MENU - SET BUG INDICATOR -BEARING. By the way this
will also work on the 295, probably the 195, but not the GPS III Pilot.

Most handheld GPS receivers have TURN, but some may require that you display
BEARING and TRACK seperately. Adjusting your heading so that TURN equals
zero is the same as BEARING and TRACK matching. Some GPS receivers do not
have a direction to the XTK or OFF COURSE field. In this case, just use
whether this field is increasing or decreasing to let you know if you are
correcting towards the leg or drifting away from it.

A note for those with a panel mount such as a Garmin 430, you can display
TURN and BEARING, but there is a data field, TKE which is the difference
between TRACK and DTK. This allows you to combine which direction you need
to go and TRACK into one data field. This gets you parallel to the leg
rather than directly to the next waypoint. TKE can also be used to take the
guesswork out of finding a heading to fly. The problem with TKE is that it
will show you on course beyond the last waypoint. Thus, it must be used in
conjunction with DISTANCE and XTE to be useful.

Whether you use compare TRACK directly with BEARING or DTK (COURSE on some
GPS receivers), or use TKE or TURN, depends on which data fields your GPS
offers, how many fields can be displayed on a screen, and how you can
customize the screen you choose to use as a primary interface.

If you are flying VFR learn to edit the routes using the map. In my book, I
create a route from KDED to KOCF. This goes directly across a bombing
range. From with this route, select MENU - Edit on Map. Move the cursor
over the route until it becomes a dotted line. Press ENTER and drag the
route to landmarks such as roads, lakes, towns, etc. When you have the
route line where you want, press ENTER again. You can now use the GPS and
landmarks as a backup. I call this "GPS Pilotage."

This technique of editing the route on the map works with most Garmin
mapping receivers whether aviation or not. I do not beleive it will work
with the panel mounted receivers. There is a slight implemenation variation
on some of the Garmin receivers in that when you first press ENTER to add a
point, it will bring you to a screen to create a waypoint. After you create
the point, you must then move the cursor over the point and press ENTER
again to add it to the route. The Lowrance receivers have a slight
variation that allows you to add map points to a route.

Lastly, beware that the first point navigated to in a route is the second
point. If you have a route from a to b to c to d and execute the route, the
GPS will start by navigating to b. This is because it uses a to anchor the
first leg of the route from a to b.

Let me know how the learning curve goes,


John Bell
www.cockpitgps.com