Got to land a King Air 90 today...

Mike Rapoport wrote:
Or its not true.
flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make a
profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the KA90
was $900hr.

NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's in its fleet. That's
fractional ownership.

"john smith" wrote in message NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's
in its fleet. That's fractional ownership.

And... that's why many savvy businessmen stay away from the fractionals.

I charge $900/hr retail for a -200 under part 135.

D.

I know. Its cheaper to go 400kts for $1200/hr then it is to go 230kts for
$900/hr. You can charter a Citation for $1400/hr.

Mike
MU-2


"john smith" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
Or its not true.
flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make
a
profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the
KA90
was $900hr.

NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's in its fleet. That's
fractional ownership.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
Mike Rapoport wrote:
Or its not true.
flying 50hrs/yr. If you look around you will see that almost nobody is
even asking $900/hr for charter work and presumably they intend to make
a
profit. It would be cheaper to charter a Citation than a KA90 if the
KA90
was $900hr.

NetJets charges $1200/hr for Citation SII's in its fleet. That's
fractional ownership.

And their margin is about 60%. That $1200 also includes two pilots when they
have additional margin. (?)

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these guys
are chartering one for $775?
http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm


It depends on the age of the plane and how you amortize the cost. Actual
operating cost of a King Air C90 is about $1/mile, or less than $300/hour.
If your King Air does not fly much, you have to spread fixed costs like
insurance, annual inspections, and interest over fewer hours, meaning a
higher cost per hour. So the cost per hour for a charter company may well be
lower than that of a less frequently used corporate plane.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
are chartering one for $775?
http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm


It depends on the age of the plane and how you amortize the cost. Actual
operating cost of a King Air C90 is about $1/mile, or less than $300/hour.
If your King Air does not fly much, you have to spread fixed costs like
insurance, annual inspections, and interest over fewer hours, meaning a
higher cost per hour. So the cost per hour for a charter company may well
be
lower than that of a less frequently used corporate plane.


Direct costs (not actual) is fuel, maintenance reserves, lubricants...

Then hourly allocated costs are insurance, depreciation, hanger, training,
updates/upgrades, pilots fees (only if applicable)...

I doubt the C90 has a direct cost of $1.00 a mile.

So if I fly my MU-2 for 15 minutes a year, is it accurate to say that it
"costs $100,000/hr to operate a MU-2"? I suppose that if the KA90 is flown
under 100hrs per year and is financed with expensive money, then one might
come up with $900/hr. My point is that it is not really an accurate
statement to say the a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate. It might be accurate
to say: "because of my low utilization, it costs $900/hr for me to operate
my KA90, if I had average utilization my cost would be about $500/hr"

My own approach is to split "ownership costs" from "operating costs". Fixed
costs are "ownership costs" and I compare them to the long term (annual or
longer) benefit of owning an airplane. Fuel and maitenance are "operating
cost" that are used to assess whether it makes sense to make a particular
flight. Since I am only flying about 150hrs/yr, fixed costs are a large
percentage of the total but they are "sunk cost" and don't have any
relevence on whether to make a flight or not.


Mike
MU-2


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
are chartering one for $775?
http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm


It depends on the age of the plane and how you amortize the cost. Actual
operating cost of a King Air C90 is about $1/mile, or less than $300/hour.
If your King Air does not fly much, you have to spread fixed costs like
insurance, annual inspections, and interest over fewer hours, meaning a
higher cost per hour. So the cost per hour for a charter company may well
be
lower than that of a less frequently used corporate plane.

In article .net,
Mike Rapoport wrote:
So if I fly my MU-2 for 15 minutes a year, is it accurate to say that it
"costs $100,000/hr to operate a MU-2"?

No, the first hour costs $25,000 and the rest are just the cost of fuel!

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these guys
are chartering one for $775?
http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm


Where do you see $900 in there. What I see is the PRICE of $775 (meaning
they'd take a loss of $125 an hour).

My numbers how a direct hourly cost of $558 for a C90. Hell, our company
JetProp1000 costs about $625 (direct $$).

I doubt that they are taking a loss on their *asking* price, particularly
since the standard *asking* price of a chartered C90 seems to be $775-$850.
The Jetprop 1000 is more comperable to a B200 than a C90. Remember they
were only paying one pilot (and maybe not even him) too!

Mike
MU-2


"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Great story! If a KA90 costs $900/hr to operate, I wonder how these
guys
are chartering one for $775?
http://www.fargojet.com/charter_kingair-c90.htm


Where do you see $900 in there. What I see is the PRICE of $775 (meaning
they'd take a loss of $125 an hour).

My numbers how a direct hourly cost of $558 for a C90. Hell, our company
JetProp1000 costs about $625 (direct $$).