USA automated panel-cutting service?

Dave Nadler wrote on 1/30/2021 12:36 PM:
On 1/26/2021 8:56 PM, Dave Nadler wrote:
Anybody able to recommend a USA company that can do automated panel cutting (from CAD)? Or
maybe in Canada? Fiberglass panel, typical glider panel overall size, flat surface with
uniform depth flange.
Thanks!

Geeze guys, CAD does not mean Carbon-pointed-pencil Aided Design.
Yes, I do have 3D CAD model to ensure no interferences...

Thanks Hank and JFitch for reminding me to try Rex, who sent the
reply below. Large-bed CNC router might make nicest result.


Dave,

Water jet has a delamination problem with wet layed up fiber glass structures like the Shempp
panels. (so I am told.* I have no direct experience.)

The laser does a nice job but it burns the material and leaves a charred edge. This is fixed
with a bit of touch up sanding. The thick Shempp panels require 2-3 passes of the laser so the
there is a bit of finish work after the cut.

CNC mill does a nice job but my table does not have enough travel to cut a panel with out
repositioning the work.

Let me know if I can help.
Rex
Ooo! Ooo! I know: have it 3D printed! That would give it a modern look.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?

Dave Nadler wrote:
On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?


I believe I used what they offered at the time. They possibly have more
options now. But agreed in the thought. My panel came out nice so I’m
happy.

Aside: interesting that I show up as ‘anonymous’ while replying through
this NewsTap iPhone app. Will look into it. Other than that I like the
newsreader app.

Back to the real conversation now, whatever gets the job done and end user
is satisfied.

Britton

Waterjet will work fine, but will create blisters of delam local to the pierce location. What this means is you pierce in the middle of your 57mm hole and then spiral out to the contour. The problem is piercing the holes for the screws won't work (or risks damage) as the blisters will often be bigger than the hole. You can hand drill them later but they will be all over the place because they are hand drilled.

I cut mine on my CNC mill, took about 10 minutes (after all the design and setup). If you strike out elsewhere, I might be talked into it under the right conditions. The issue on a CNC mill is you have to figure out how to hold it, and where the CL is - at least on the panels I've seen they are not very symmetric (and won't match the drawing) so it's hard to guess.

What I did to fixture it is make a plywood plug the would sit up in the flange of the panel and hold it off the table. Then drilled holes in the middle of all the cutouts and screwed it to the plywood through those holes. Then ran the program to cut all the shapes and holes. Part way through you have a bunch of additional holes to screw down through.

This is the advantage of waterjet or laser - they are essentially no-force machining so fixturing is easy. On a CNC mill or router, you need to nail that sucker down.

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 4:14:36 PM UTC-8, Anonymous wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote:
On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?

I believe I used what they offered at the time. They possibly have more
options now. But agreed in the thought. My panel came out nice so I’m
happy.

Aside: interesting that I show up as ‘anonymous’ while replying through
this NewsTap iPhone app. Will look into it. Other than that I like the
newsreader app.

Back to the real conversation now, whatever gets the job done and end user
is satisfied.

Britton

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
Waterjet will work fine, but will create blisters of delam local to the pierce location. What this means is you pierce in the middle of your 57mm hole and then spiral out to the contour. The problem is piercing the holes for the screws won't work (or risks damage) as the blisters will often be bigger than the hole. You can hand drill them later but they will be all over the place because they are hand drilled.

I cut mine on my CNC mill, took about 10 minutes (after all the design and setup). If you strike out elsewhere, I might be talked into it under the right conditions. The issue on a CNC mill is you have to figure out how to hold it, and where the CL is - at least on the panels I've seen they are not very symmetric (and won't match the drawing) so it's hard to guess.

What I did to fixture it is make a plywood plug the would sit up in the flange of the panel and hold it off the table. Then drilled holes in the middle of all the cutouts and screwed it to the plywood through those holes. Then ran the program to cut all the shapes and holes. Part way through you have a bunch of additional holes to screw down through.

This is the advantage of waterjet or laser - they are essentially no-force machining so fixturing is easy. On a CNC mill or router, you need to nail that sucker down.
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 4:14:36 PM UTC-8, Anonymous wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote:
On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?

I believe I used what they offered at the time. They possibly have more
options now. But agreed in the thought. My panel came out nice so I’m
happy.

Aside: interesting that I show up as ‘anonymous’ while replying through
this NewsTap iPhone app. Will look into it. Other than that I like the
newsreader app.

Back to the real conversation now, whatever gets the job done and end user
is satisfied.

Britton

If you are an EAA member you can download a free version of Solidworks (if not, it is worth joining because SW is about $5k). You can create a 3D version of your panel. If you want to check interferences you can either create 3D models of the avionics or download these models from sites such as:
https://grabcad.com/library?software... tags=avionics
You can create an assembly using these models (you will create the model of your panel).
From this you can create output files that all CNC shops recognize.

Solidworks does have a steep learning curve, but it is worth it. There are numerous online training videos that help a lot. Once proficient at it you can create virtually any kind of part you can think of, either machined out of solid material or made by 3D rendering machines.

Tom

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 11:22:48 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
Waterjet will work fine, but will create blisters of delam local to the pierce location. What this means is you pierce in the middle of your 57mm hole and then spiral out to the contour. The problem is piercing the holes for the screws won't work (or risks damage) as the blisters will often be bigger than the hole. You can hand drill them later but they will be all over the place because they are hand drilled.

I cut mine on my CNC mill, took about 10 minutes (after all the design and setup). If you strike out elsewhere, I might be talked into it under the right conditions. The issue on a CNC mill is you have to figure out how to hold it, and where the CL is - at least on the panels I've seen they are not very symmetric (and won't match the drawing) so it's hard to guess.

What I did to fixture it is make a plywood plug the would sit up in the flange of the panel and hold it off the table. Then drilled holes in the middle of all the cutouts and screwed it to the plywood through those holes. Then ran the program to cut all the shapes and holes. Part way through you have a bunch of additional holes to screw down through.

This is the advantage of waterjet or laser - they are essentially no-force machining so fixturing is easy. On a CNC mill or router, you need to nail that sucker down.
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 4:14:36 PM UTC-8, Anonymous wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote:
On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?

I believe I used what they offered at the time. They possibly have more
options now. But agreed in the thought. My panel came out nice so I’m
happy.

Aside: interesting that I show up as ‘anonymous’ while replying through
this NewsTap iPhone app. Will look into it. Other than that I like the
newsreader app.

Back to the real conversation now, whatever gets the job done and end user
is satisfied.

Britton
If you are an EAA member you can download a free version of Solidworks (if not, it is worth joining because SW is about $5k). You can create a 3D version of your panel. If you want to check interferences you can either create 3D models of the avionics or download these models from sites such as:
https://grabcad.com/library?software... tags=avionics
You can create an assembly using these models (you will create the model of your panel).
From this you can create output files that all CNC shops recognize.

Solidworks does have a steep learning curve, but it is worth it. There are numerous online training videos that help a lot. Once proficient at it you can create virtually any kind of part you can think of, either machined out of solid material or made by 3D rendering machines.

Tom

Another CAD package you can use that is FREE is ONSHAPE (onshape.com/en). It also has a bit of a learning curve (all capable CAD programs do) but for jobs of limited complexity, such as a console, you can use onshape free.

Rich L.

I looked through that list of avionics and didn't find much that a glider pilot would be interested in. However, when I re-did my asw27b panel I modeled all the instruments in Solidworks. This would include the Trig t-22 head and body, Flarm core, ASI (large), card compass, LNAV V80, Oudie, etc. zip files an be downloaded he https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n1j67ov2a...3qmfA-kHa?dl=0 if you are interested.

Matt

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 9:55:27 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 11:22:48 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
Waterjet will work fine, but will create blisters of delam local to the pierce location. What this means is you pierce in the middle of your 57mm hole and then spiral out to the contour. The problem is piercing the holes for the screws won't work (or risks damage) as the blisters will often be bigger than the hole. You can hand drill them later but they will be all over the place because they are hand drilled.

I cut mine on my CNC mill, took about 10 minutes (after all the design and setup). If you strike out elsewhere, I might be talked into it under the right conditions. The issue on a CNC mill is you have to figure out how to hold it, and where the CL is - at least on the panels I've seen they are not very symmetric (and won't match the drawing) so it's hard to guess.

What I did to fixture it is make a plywood plug the would sit up in the flange of the panel and hold it off the table. Then drilled holes in the middle of all the cutouts and screwed it to the plywood through those holes. Then ran the program to cut all the shapes and holes. Part way through you have a bunch of additional holes to screw down through.

This is the advantage of waterjet or laser - they are essentially no-force machining so fixturing is easy. On a CNC mill or router, you need to nail that sucker down.
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 4:14:36 PM UTC-8, Anonymous wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote:
On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?

I believe I used what they offered at the time. They possibly have more
options now. But agreed in the thought. My panel came out nice so I’m
happy.

Aside: interesting that I show up as ‘anonymous’ while replying through
this NewsTap iPhone app. Will look into it. Other than that I like the
newsreader app.

Back to the real conversation now, whatever gets the job done and end user
is satisfied.

Britton
If you are an EAA member you can download a free version of Solidworks (if not, it is worth joining because SW is about $5k). You can create a 3D version of your panel. If you want to check interferences you can either create 3D models of the avionics or download these models from sites such as:
https://grabcad.com/library?software... tags=avionics
You can create an assembly using these models (you will create the model of your panel).
From this you can create output files that all CNC shops recognize.

Solidworks does have a steep learning curve, but it is worth it. There are numerous online training videos that help a lot. Once proficient at it you can create virtually any kind of part you can think of, either machined out of solid material or made by 3D rendering machines.

Tom
Another CAD package you can use that is FREE is ONSHAPE (onshape.com/en). It also has a bit of a learning curve (all capable CAD programs do) but for jobs of limited complexity, such as a console, you can use onshape free.

Rich L.

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 10:42:04 AM UTC-8, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
I looked through that list of avionics and didn't find much that a glider pilot would be interested in. However, when I re-did my asw27b panel I modeled all the instruments in Solidworks. This would include the Trig t-22 head and body, Flarm core, ASI (large), card compass, LNAV V80, Oudie, etc. zip files an be downloaded he https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n1j67ov2a...3qmfA-kHa?dl=0 if you are interested.

Matt
On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 9:55:27 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 11:22:48 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
Waterjet will work fine, but will create blisters of delam local to the pierce location. What this means is you pierce in the middle of your 57mm hole and then spiral out to the contour. The problem is piercing the holes for the screws won't work (or risks damage) as the blisters will often be bigger than the hole. You can hand drill them later but they will be all over the place because they are hand drilled.

I cut mine on my CNC mill, took about 10 minutes (after all the design and setup). If you strike out elsewhere, I might be talked into it under the right conditions. The issue on a CNC mill is you have to figure out how to hold it, and where the CL is - at least on the panels I've seen they are not very symmetric (and won't match the drawing) so it's hard to guess.

What I did to fixture it is make a plywood plug the would sit up in the flange of the panel and hold it off the table. Then drilled holes in the middle of all the cutouts and screwed it to the plywood through those holes. Then ran the program to cut all the shapes and holes. Part way through you have a bunch of additional holes to screw down through.

This is the advantage of waterjet or laser - they are essentially no-force machining so fixturing is easy. On a CNC mill or router, you need to nail that sucker down.
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 4:14:36 PM UTC-8, Anonymous wrote:
Dave Nadler wrote:
On 1/30/2021 5:39 PM, Anonymous wrote:
In the past I’ve used ponoko to laser cut an aluminum template from my cad
model. It’s really a SVG file they need for closed path tracing. They’re
reasonably priced since you do all the hard work ahead of time.. They just
cut material and ship to you.

Once received just a matter of mounting to your panel and then cutting with
your favorite fine cutter.

Britton

Interesting. If you're going to go the template route, why wouldn't you
use a thicker material (acrylic?) to make using a router easier?

I believe I used what they offered at the time. They possibly have more
options now. But agreed in the thought. My panel came out nice so I’m
happy.

Aside: interesting that I show up as ‘anonymous’ while replying through
this NewsTap iPhone app. Will look into it. Other than that I like the
newsreader app.

Back to the real conversation now, whatever gets the job done and end user
is satisfied.

Britton
If you are an EAA member you can download a free version of Solidworks (if not, it is worth joining because SW is about $5k). You can create a 3D version of your panel. If you want to check interferences you can either create 3D models of the avionics or download these models from sites such as:
https://grabcad.com/library?software... tags=avionics
You can create an assembly using these models (you will create the model of your panel).
From this you can create output files that all CNC shops recognize.

Solidworks does have a steep learning curve, but it is worth it. There are numerous online training videos that help a lot. Once proficient at it you can create virtually any kind of part you can think of, either machined out of solid material or made by 3D rendering machines.

Tom
Another CAD package you can use that is FREE is ONSHAPE (onshape.com/en). It also has a bit of a learning curve (all capable CAD programs do) but for jobs of limited complexity, such as a console, you can use onshape free..

Rich L.

Hi Matt,

Thanks for posting those models - that will significantly simply the process for others that want to try it. Building those models are the most time consuming part of the process. I have no dog in the fight: I paid Schleicher to build my panel for me, and it was worth every euro!

Tom

I like your multiple label plastic overlay. That sucker isn't going to curl up and fall off in
the heat!

Eric

Matt Herron Jr. wrote on 1/31/2021 10:42 AM:
I looked through that list of avionics and didn't find much that a glider pilot would be interested in. However, when I re-did my asw27b panel I modeled all the instruments in Solidworks. This would include the Trig t-22 head and body, Flarm core, ASI (large), card compass, LNAV V80, Oudie, etc. zip files an be downloaded he https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n1j67ov2a...3qmfA-kHa?dl=0 if you are interested.

Matt

On Sunday, January 31, 2021 at 9:55:27 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 11:22:48 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 5:31:52 PM UTC-8, jfitch wrote:
Waterjet will work fine, but will create blisters of delam local to the pierce location. What this ...
Solidworks does have a steep learning curve, but it is worth it. There are numerous online training videos that help a lot. Once proficient at it you can create virtually any kind of part you can think of, either machined out of solid material or made by 3D rendering machines.

Tom
Another CAD package you can use that is FREE is ONSHAPE (onshape.com/en). It also has a bit of a learning curve (all capable CAD programs do) but for jobs of limited complexity, such as a console, you can use onshape free.

Rich L.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1