Practice IMC in real IMC

Hello,

I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment? Say a block of airspace
like they do for aerobatics? Of course I would first do this with a
CFII.
Previous all my maneuvering in the clouds has been during real
approaches close to the ground. All of my IFR flying is single pilot.
I have had a few cases when alone I have had to make the procedure turn
reversal and descend at the same time and I was definitely
uncomfortable with the smoothness of the descending turn. I would
focus on bank angle and descent rate and I would pass through the
bearing, or I would allow the bank rate to go beyond standard rate.
Nothing significant, 10 degrees on bearing and maybe 10 deg on bank
angle, no loss of control or serious deviations. Everything would work
out OK, but I was not comfortable and it was not acceptable performance
for me. I have since limited maneuvers in IMC to either turning, or
descending, but not both. This works well, but I know that sometime I
will get to do both again. Most of my approaches are either VOR or
NDB. ILS approaches are a piece of cake.
I can do it perfectly (well, acceptable and without error) under the
hood. I just finished a 3 hour run with a CFII under the hood and
everything was perfect. There is something different about maneuvering
in the clouds.
I know I could get a CFII in actual conditions with close to min
ceilings, and practice maneuvers during the approach, but that doesn't
sound smart to me. I don't care how good the CFII is, loss of control
in IMC at 800 feet above the ground is going to be ugly. I want to
practice with a bunch of air below me.
Of course I fly perfectly with the AP enabled

Thanks,
Greg

"gregscheetah" wrote in message
oups.com...

I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment? Say a block of airspace
like they do for aerobatics? Of course I would first do this with a
CFII.


Sure. You'll get a chunk of airspace defined by a block altitude and
maximum distance from some fix or VOR radials. Your CFII may have already
done this.

You might be able to get a block altitude assigned for use like that but
I'd get the number of the TRACON you'd be using and call someone up
there and ask how best to proceed before filing and getting in the soup.

Cloud flying is different, a peek is work a thousand crosschecks, you
are forced to be honest when you're in the soup, even your peripheral
cues disappear.

gregscheetah wrote:
Hello,

I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment? Say a block of airspace
like they do for aerobatics? Of course I would first do this with a
CFII.
Previous all my maneuvering in the clouds has been during real
approaches close to the ground. All of my IFR flying is single pilot.
I have had a few cases when alone I have had to make the procedure turn
reversal and descend at the same time and I was definitely
uncomfortable with the smoothness of the descending turn. I would
focus on bank angle and descent rate and I would pass through the
bearing, or I would allow the bank rate to go beyond standard rate.
Nothing significant, 10 degrees on bearing and maybe 10 deg on bank
angle, no loss of control or serious deviations. Everything would work
out OK, but I was not comfortable and it was not acceptable performance
for me. I have since limited maneuvers in IMC to either turning, or
descending, but not both. This works well, but I know that sometime I
will get to do both again. Most of my approaches are either VOR or
NDB. ILS approaches are a piece of cake.
I can do it perfectly (well, acceptable and without error) under the
hood. I just finished a 3 hour run with a CFII under the hood and
everything was perfect. There is something different about maneuvering
in the clouds.
I know I could get a CFII in actual conditions with close to min
ceilings, and practice maneuvers during the approach, but that doesn't
sound smart to me. I don't care how good the CFII is, loss of control
in IMC at 800 feet above the ground is going to be ugly. I want to
practice with a bunch of air below me.
Of course I fly perfectly with the AP enabled

Thanks,
Greg

Robert Chambers wrote:
Cloud flying is different, a peek is work a thousand crosschecks, you
are forced to be honest when you're in the soup, even your peripheral
cues disappear.


Pretty much everyone will tell you it's actually easier to fly in clouds than
under the hood. I assume it's because you have the normal scope of vision
within the cockpit compared to the very limited view under the hood. So, while
you still can't see the horizon, you can see the radios, compass, instruments,
etc in the same view.

Then of course there's the added motivation. This is one video game you can't
afford to lose.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in
:

Robert Chambers wrote:
Cloud flying is different, a peek is work a thousand crosschecks, you
are forced to be honest when you're in the soup, even your peripheral
cues disappear.


Pretty much everyone will tell you it's actually easier to fly in
clouds than under the hood. I assume it's because you have the normal
scope of vision within the cockpit compared to the very limited view
under the hood. So, while you still can't see the horizon, you can
see the radios, compass, instruments, etc in the same view.

Then of course there's the added motivation. This is one video game
you can't afford to lose.


I don't know if I agree completely...

It's much harder to keep your scan going when you want so badly to look out
the window at the beautiful cloud formations!

It's much harder to keep your scan going when you want so badly to look out
the window at the beautiful cloud formations!

If you can see beautiful cloud formations, your eyeballs had better be
focused on the HDPD(*) in front of you. Aluminum is everywhere!

*High Definition Plexiglass Display
Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In a previous article, "gregscheetah" said:
I want to practice maneuvers, descending turns and basic manual
maneuvering in IMC conditions. Is it possible to get ATC to assign you
a 'practice area' in real IMC environment? Say a block of airspace
like they do for aerobatics? Of course I would first do this with a
CFII.

My CFII would request a hold at the local holding fix, and then request a
block altitude. As long as you stayed on the correct side of the hold,
ATC are remarkably tolerant of what you do - stalls, unusual attitude
recovery, climbs and descents at a given speed, climbs and descents at a
given rate, etc. You're already doing constant rate turns in the hold, so
do them partial panel and time them.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I'm a Darwinian carnivore. I only eat things that weren't fit enough
to prevent their being killed.
-- Mike Sphar

Unusual attitude recovery and stalls are probably things I would not do
in IMC.

-Robert, CFI

"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Unusual attitude recovery and stalls are probably things I would not do
in IMC.

One one instrument proficiency check a few years ago, I had a CFII not only
ask me to perform stalls, but also to make two steep turns, all while
flying on an IFR flight plan in IMC.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Unusual attitude recovery and stalls are probably things I would not do
in IMC.

One one instrument proficiency check a few years ago, I had a CFII not
only
ask me to perform stalls, but also to make two steep turns, all while
flying on an IFR flight plan in IMC.

I take it you dumped that guy?