Have you ever...

"Jay Honeck" wrote

This guy was always the "wild uncle" -- motorcycling across Europe,
traveling the world with a back pack and a smile, never having a pot to
pee in but living extravagantly -- and I suppose he took a few flight
lessons and decided that he already knew what he needed to know...

I shudder to think about it now...

I wonder how many people are flying without ever having their ticket, or
have been flying for years since they were legal. I hear of a guy around my
area who has not had a medical for 15 years.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Jay Honeck" wrote

This guy was always the "wild uncle" -- motorcycling across Europe,
traveling the world with a back pack and a smile, never having a pot to
pee in but living extravagantly -- and I suppose he took a few flight
lessons and decided that he already knew what he needed to know...

I shudder to think about it now...

I wonder how many people are flying without ever having their ticket, or
have been flying for years since they were legal. I hear of a guy around
my
area who has not had a medical for 15 years.
--
Jim in NC

The proportion is probably not much different than the number of people that
drive without a drivers license. A larger number than most would expect.
The chances of getting caught are minimal.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote

Yes, I will not fly with any private or non-professional commercial pilot
except in the right seat unless they have demonstrated TO ME that they are
competent. I may simply be paranoid.

So, how do you learn if they are competent, if you don't fly with them?
--
Jim in NC

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
Thus the problem with generalizations. When you fail to qualify your
statement, it becomes inaccurate.

This seems a little silly to me ... what you claim was my
"generalization" did not make my comment "inaccurate". It was part of a
discussion about differing attitudes about offering and accepting
airplane and car rides from strangers. No accurate or inaccurate about
it, just added a comment to the topic; but feel free to dissect the
words and phrases and label each if you feel that need.

Just because someone else is vouching for a person, that
does not keep them from being a total stranger. It simply
makes them a different kind of total stranger.

Agreed. But in the scenario I was talking about, no one had vouched for
anyone. The minute you begin to learn things about someone, they become
less of a stranger, and what you've learned influences decisions about
things like accepting invites for flights or rides.

Pilots and passengers at major airlines are usually total strangers too;
however, their business is offering rides for money, you are in need of
the ride, and even though you don't know the pilots or the mechanics,
there is *some* implied assurance that these people had certain
qualifications for their jobs, and the pilots now have a little more
implied assurance that passengers aren't going to be dangerous. Even
with all that, there's still some risk. But that's still different than
going to an airport and approaching any stranger standing next to any
airplane to take you to your destination...or to hop into your airplane
with you.

Thank you for illustrating exactly the problem with generalizations I was
talking about.

I am aware of the problem with generalizations, but I'm not sure what
your problem is with my comment. You're free to think it's fine to
accept plane rides from some random person on the field or to expect
that any stranger you offer a ride to will assume you're a competent
pilot if that's your opinion.

But it's reasonably analagous to hitch-hiking,
which is not a uniformly dangerous practice.

Maybe you need to take some of your own advice about generalizations. I
don't know where you live, but many would disagree that hitch-hiking "is
not a uniformly dangerous practice." Quite the opposite.

The person you described was not someone you had
any reason to believe "was not entirely safe." The only
reason for declining the ride was your lack of knowledge
about him, not some specific knowledge about him.

Actually, I didn't have "specific knowledge", but I did have *reason* to
believe he was not entirely safe. He wouldn't go away while I was trying
to preflight, he bragged about having 3000 hours and no accidents, and
his overall arrogant attitude was *more* than enough for me to feel he
"was not entirely safe." That may be an inaccurate assumption, maybe
he's one terrific pilot; but the feeling I had about his attitude and
arrogance was real enough to be a red flag *to me* about flying with him
.... which WAS Jay's question.

"Jimmy B." wrote in message
nk.net...
Yes, I have refused to fly with people who I felt were unsafe. I've
also refused to fly as PIC with people who I felt were unsafe. Being
PIC does nothing for you if the other person grabs the yoke on short
final and you both wind up as a flaming ball of wreckage.

Had that happen to me once... Before the flight, I had instructed him that
he was under no circumstances to touch the controls... He freaked out during
a bank, grabbed the yoke and his feet started pumping the rudder pedals... I
put a right elbow with a significant amount of force into his upper torso
area and he let go... If he hadn't, the next elbow was going to be going
into his face... I won't fly with him again...

wrote in message
...
[...]
I am aware of the problem with generalizations, but I'm not sure what
your problem is with my comment.

Your comment was a generalization. I simply said one should be careful
about making generalizations, such as the one you made. Your blanket
statement is not correct 100% of the time (a common problem with
generalizations).

[...]
Actually, I didn't have "specific knowledge", but I did have *reason* to
believe he was not entirely safe. He wouldn't go away while I was trying
to preflight, he bragged about having 3000 hours and no accidents, and
his overall arrogant attitude was *more* than enough for me to feel he
"was not entirely safe."

You know all that about the guy, and yet you call him a total stranger? At
the same time, you equivocate about what constitutes a total stranger with
respect to my examples?

You are funny. Thanks for the giggle.

wrote in message
...
I don't know what examples there are of people taking car rides or plane
rides from total strangers--no one I know gets into a car with a person
they don't even know.

If my car was broke down on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere
and someone offered me a ride, I wouldn't have a problem with it... Of
course, I always carry a .45 with me so that might affect my judgement
somewhat...

wrote in message
...
Did you just pick people at random on the street that you assumed needed
rides?

In Houston, it is fairly common for people to drive by the Park-and-Ride
locations and offer rides to people waiting on the bus so that they can take
the HOV lane instead of being stuck in one of the12 lane parking lots that
we call "expressways"...

"Peter Duniho" wrote:
Your blanket statement is not correct 100% of the time
(a common problem with generalizations).

But that didn't keep you from making one.

Actually, I didn't have "specific knowledge", but I did have *reason* to
believe he was not entirely safe. He wouldn't go away while I was trying
to preflight, he bragged about having 3000 hours and no accidents, and
his overall arrogant attitude was *more* than enough for me to feel he
"was not entirely safe."

You know all that about the guy, and yet you call him a total stranger?

You are funny. Thanks for the giggle.

Yes, he was/is a total stranger. I never saw the guy before. After a few
minutes of conversation, only thing I *knew* was that in my opinion, he
was an arrogant blowhard. As another poster said, some traits on the
ground may or may not also present in the cockpit. Reasons for "not
feeling a person is entirely safe" for some of us DO include a person's
attitude, regardless of how many hours he says he has. Think I'm funny
and giggle if you want ... I'm not THAT desperate to fly.

And that *was* Jay's question.

unicate wrote:
Did you just pick people at random on the street that you assumed needed
rides?

"Grumman-581" wrote:
In Houston, it is fairly common for people to drive by the
Park-and-Ride locations and offer rides to people waiting
on the bus so that they can take the HOV lane instead of
being stuck in one of the 12 lane parking lots that
we call "expressways"...

I know, and *most* of those rides end up safely. Still, would you
suggest that practice--offering/accepting rides to/from a person they've
never seen before at the bus stop--to your son/daughter/spouse?

Everyone has their own risk tolerance level. I was merely pointing out
what I perceive as a double standard: despite what many of us accept
about the dangers of getting into a car with a stranger, some don't seem
to think twice about getting into an airplane with one, pilot or
passenger. To clarify, I was talking specifically about a random person
on the field, not about going to a flight school and signing up for a
Discovery Flight or to events where rides are being offered.