I give up, after many, many years!

Wow, you guys really filter-out Jay?

I can't decide whether to be disappointed...or honored.

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"HARRY POTTER" wrote in message
...

I agree with you on Bertie, but not MX. I honestly think MX posts here
because he genuinely wants to learn about piloting. All his threads starts
on a reasonable tone. Its other people who turn it into a ****fest, which
he then responds to. His "trolling", I feel, is mainly caused by his
frustration of the fact that people judge his opinions solely on who he
is,
rather than what he posts. If people treated his opinions like they would
anybody else, he'd stop being so blatantly obtuse.

It's like punishing a dog when it does something bad, as well as punishing
it when it does something good. After a while, the punishment loses all
meaning. People here think that by being rude to him everytime he makes a
post is going to drive him away, but all it's doing is making him more and
more bitter and dismissive of people's criticism.

Bertie, on the other hand, reminds me of this kid I knew in middle school
whose acting up in class was largely caused by all the other kids in the
class' giggling at his antics. As long as people keep namedropping Bertie
him in their more serious threads and showing sycophantic feelings towards
him, his trolling "personality" will continue to be positively reinforced
and it'll never stop.

Bertie's trolling is caused by something completely different that what
causes MX to troll, so they need to be dealt with differently.


You must be new to the group. Give it a little time, you are making the same
mistake others have made, many times before. In fact, MX counts on new
people to feed his threads. He is totally lost without them. They are the
only reason he is still here today.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
..

You're a liar, and an idiot.

On May 14, 9:40*am, wrote:
On May 13, 11:50 pm, HARRY POTTER wrote:

I agree with you on Bertie, but not MX. I honestly think MX posts here
because he genuinely wants to learn about piloting. All his threads starts
on a reasonable tone. Its other people who turn it into a ****fest, which
he then responds to. His "trolling", I feel, is mainly caused by his
frustration of the fact that people judge his opinions solely on who he is,
rather than what he posts. If people treated his opinions like they would
anybody else, he'd stop being so blatantly obtuse.

I have at least hinted that the pilots here might try that, and each
time they claimed that I was trolling.

* * * You haven't been here long enough. Many times Mx or Le Chaud
Lapin will ask a question, get the right answer in a polite manner,
and then argue endlessly against that answer, belittling the teacher.
What reaction would you expect?

I know of two specific examples were the answer was wrong. And also,
some of the stock answers are still under debate, like what causes
lift, probably one of the most fundamental, theoretical questions a
pilot might ask about flying.

Also, speaking for myself, I never said I was right. I was simply
exploring possibilities. There is nothing wrong with exploration of
topics still under debate.

* * *Many of the physics and other things in aviation are not
intuitive; that is, they don't make sense to the uninitiated, and
without well-rounded groundschooling and flight instruction they never
will make sense. Flight simulators don't teach these things. Add to
that the fact that there are people who are certain that they're much
smarter than the average bear and so they have "new" answers to
aviation's problems. Those new answers killed a lot of guys a long
time ago but they don't know that. To them, "well-rounded
groundschooling" is equal to standard party propaganda and therefore
false.

I agree with Harry. Though I have disagreed with Mx on one point, he
has never been rude, condescending, or hostile to me in any way. In
fact, I took a look at many of his posts a while back, and the
rudeness and hostility were coming from elsewhere. There also seemed
to be people who tend to vacillate between being helpful and being
hostile, depending on their given mood.

Secondly, I do not agree that there are things that necessarily do not
make sense to the "uninitiated."

A big part of flight dynamics is based upon Newtonian physics, and I
do understand Newtonian physics, and I personally know of people who
received advanced degrees in aero/astro who do not have a pilot's
license. Some of these individuals might know a bit about flight
dynamics too.

Also, there are some people who are both heavily-experienced pilots
who also understand the underlying physics: I was watching television
one day about Blue Angels, and the commentator mentioned that "only a
very few special pilots get to fly these aircraft, and precisely at
that moment, the camera panned to a classroom blackboard for only a
few hundred milliseconds, and behold, on the board, was none other
than a moderately complex transfer function H(s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_function

I thought..."Hmmm...Transfer functions...impressive...probably talking
about instability."

Most pilots I would imagine eventually develop an intuitive feel for
oscillations caused by instability, but they would not know where the
poles of transfer function governing that instability lie.

And as far as flying, from what I see, a large part of it is what one
knows, and there is a lot that can be learned from a simulator, like
VOR practice, which would be far more expensive if learned solely from
cockpit at $100/hour than using fixed $50 product from convenience of
home.

So the question becomes...how much theory can be learned in the
absence of actually flying, and how much requires being in the plane
(or having a groundschool instructor present while you read the book).

I think that quite a bit can be learned [and understood] before ever
leaving the ground, far more than what can only be learned by being in
the aircraft.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:zgEWj.163693
$yE1.47269@attbi_s21:

Wow, you guys really filter-out Jay?

I can't decide whether to be disappointed...or honored.

:-)

Of course you can't



Bertie

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
:


"HARRY POTTER" wrote in message
...

I agree with you on Bertie, but not MX. I honestly think MX posts
here because he genuinely wants to learn about piloting. All his
threads starts on a reasonable tone. Its other people who turn it
into a ****fest, which he then responds to. His "trolling", I feel,
is mainly caused by his frustration of the fact that people judge his
opinions solely on who he is,
rather than what he posts. If people treated his opinions like they
would anybody else, he'd stop being so blatantly obtuse.

It's like punishing a dog when it does something bad, as well as
punishing it when it does something good. After a while, the
punishment loses all meaning. People here think that by being rude to
him everytime he makes a post is going to drive him away, but all
it's doing is making him more and more bitter and dismissive of
people's criticism.

Bertie, on the other hand, reminds me of this kid I knew in middle
school whose acting up in class was largely caused by all the other
kids in the class' giggling at his antics. As long as people keep
namedropping Bertie him in their more serious threads and showing
sycophantic feelings towards him, his trolling "personality" will
continue to be positively reinforced and it'll never stop.

Bertie's trolling is caused by something completely different that
what causes MX to troll, so they need to be dealt with differently.


You must be new to the group. Give it a little time, you are making
the same mistake others have made, many times before. In fact, MX
counts on new people to feed his threads. He is totally lost without
them. They are the only reason he is still here today.



And you are the only reason I'm still here.



Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:NUDWj.109571$TT4.43765@attbi_s22:

You haven't been here long enough. Many times Mx or Le Chaud
Lapin will ask a question, get the right answer in a polite manner,
and then argue endlessly against that answer, belittling the teacher.

I have been here forever, and I have NEVER seen MX belittle anyone.

Not once.

I've seen him try, but of course, those went over your pointy head.

Now, either that's because I don't read every, single thread MX
responds to, or it's because my definition of "belittling" differs
from yours -- but I have only seen polite responses from him in the
face of some VERY demeaning attacks.

In this regard, he certainly doesn't fit the M.O. of most trolls.


You wouldn't know wat a troll was if it bit you in the nuts.



Bertie

Yeah, like you could, wanna boi.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .



You;re a legend in your own mind.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .


Whoosh.

(Insert lame IKYABWAI lame here, Maxie)



Bertie

Keep your hollow head out of the wind, or wear ear muffs.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:idEWj.163686$yE1.109396@attbi_s21...

Damn Jay, I'm really surprised you would take up for that piece of ****. Mx
is not your friend, or any one else's. You need to spend more time observing
his behavior ALL the time, before you take up his cause.

As for the old days, we have always had problems with things like this. Can
you say "Liability Stealth". The biggest difference back then was 90% of the
players were a smaller, and closed knit group. They more often agreed who to
shun, and poke **** at. Today there are so many new players, many who only
THINK they know the ropes, and it confuses the mix.

EVERYONE needs to be much more careful about who the attack, and who the
real problem children really are.