Presidential TFR @ Kill Devil Hills

("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
Bush has the great (double) misfortune of being:

1. One of our least intelligent Presidents.
2. Following one of the most intelligent Presidents this country has
ever
had.

Bush is clearly more intelligent than Clinton. Now, you'll of course
disagree with that, but if you examine their administrations you find that
Bush has accomplished more in three years than Clinton did in eight.


Steven - just jumping in on your post because I deleted the other replies
already.

1. I don't think GW is dumb, stupid or inept.
2. I *do* think raw intellect is something you can get a sense of - much
like charisma, warmth and sincerely.

3. Intellect is not the end all in setting up a successful administration.

4. For example: GW doesn't answer questions with a strong command of the
situation (news conferences/interviews/etc). Clinton owned those situations
for the better part of 8 years. This is where 75% of my "Presidential
Intellect" observations come from.

If there are maybe 10 criteria that Bush, and all former Presidents are
scored on - and intellect is one of them, then I sincerely believe Bush
would rank near the bottom (compared to past Presidents) in that one
category - raw intelligence.

Now it comes down to definitions of intellect.

--
Montblack
http://lumma.de/mt/archives/bart.gif

The point is that I didn't purport to be a military pilot while avoiding
duty.

No, the point is that you were never a military pilot, while George
Bush was, yet you take it on yourself to impugn his patriotism.

He served two years on active duty. How many did you serve? None,
right?

As for his hours, I believe they are on the web, on the same place I
found out about his military record. Interestingly, he learned to fly
in a Cessna. That was the first I knew that the Air Force used Cessnas
as trainers.

He didn't purport to be a military pilot: he *was* a military pilot.
He wasn't a combat pilot, but that is another matter entirely. Few
F-102 pilots ever served in Vietnam, because F-102s didn't have guns.
The few who went, transitioned to other aircraft.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

I doubt Bush would have been sent however, The F-102 was not exactly
cutting edge and Bush was not a high time pilot ready for combat.
Im sure he would have went if ordered to however.

The F-102 was an interceptor only (rockets in a weapons bay--no guns).
A few went to SE Asia but had almost no role to play. I believe that
most 102 drivers who volunteered were transitioned to other aircraft.
None was ordered to go.

More Guard and Reserve pilots served in Vietnam than I believed at the
time. Sometimes this was units being sent over (the New Hampshire Air
Guard was mobilized every December to fly Christmas mail to SE Asia).
Most often it was individuals volunteering and occasionally being
called to active duty.
'
Bush presumably had as many hours as the average pilot, during his two
years on active duty. In any event, pilots transitioned to other a/c
typically went to a training course (the death rate on the graduates
of these courses was particularly high, sometimes 50 percent--see Ed
Rasimus, When Thunder Rolled www.warbirdforum.com/thunder.htm -- one
of the best combat memoirs I have ever read.) Afterward, during the
several years he was an active member of the Air Guard, his flying
time would have been much less, and in the last year or 18 months it
was evidently non-existent.

Still, his service was longer and more intense than mine, and I
suspect longer and more intense than that of 90 percent of the posters
to this board.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Could you not expect the President of the United States
to show up to the centennial of one of the most
important American inventions in all of human history?

I emailed him yesterday, "as a pilot and as a Republican," asking him
to stay home.

Sheez. All he has to do is say that if he goes, the Secret Service
will require the airspace to be closed, and that he doesn't want to do
that. He can be there in spirit.

Personally, I'd rather have him working on Iraq than schmoozing in
Kittyhawk.

(I didn't dare use "Kill Devil Hill" in my email. Figured it would be
intercepted.)





all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

McGovern carried Massachusetts as well.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

snip
While McGovern lost badly (he only carried DC)...
snip

Hubbel

Single pilot fighters (Duce), you log PIC on all flights unless you
got god as your co-pilot like Scott of Flying Tigers book fame.

Big John

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 21:09:55 -0800, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 22:53:28 GMT Bob Noel wrote:

In article qsGDb.18357$pY.9524@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

He flew F-102 supersonic jet interceptors, on active duty in the USAF
and later in the Texas Air Guard.

How many hours did he log as PIC? Most pilots brag about that, in fact
most
consider that to be the defining metric.

what military pilots do you hang around with? I've never
met a military pilot that brags about hours.


Brag is probably the wrong word but number of hours is a metric that gets
tossed around a bit. But never heard any mention of Dubya's hours as
PIC.


R. Hubbell


--
Bob Noel

In article yyRDb.23619$pY.15803@fed1read04, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

How many hours did he log as PIC? Most pilots brag about that, in
fact
most
consider that to be the defining metric.

what military pilots do you hang around with? I've never
met a military pilot that brags about hours.

Brag is probably the wrong word but number of hours is a metric that gets
tossed around a bit. But never heard any mention of Dubya's hours as
PIC.

Well, in my limited experience (I'm not former military, and
I only worked with USAF folks, including numerous current and former
USAF pilots), I've never ever heard one discuss their hours.
I've heard about guys talk about birdstrikes, missions (peacetime
and war), aircraft characteristics, but not the number of hours.

Come to think of it, the only pilots I know of that talk about
hours like they mean anything are student pilots and recently
minted private pilots. Of course, everyone talks about the
crusty old 20,000+ pilots.

--
Bob Noel

"Joe Johnson" wrote in message
. com...
McGovern carried Massachusetts as well.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

snip
While McGovern lost badly (he only carried DC)...
snip

Yup, you're right. DC and Mass.-- and Massachusetts he only carried by about
1%.

(When Mondale ran, he only carried (IIRC), Mass., and his home state of
Minnesota, and only carried that by about 3,000 votes out of something like
2.1 million (and it's said that 50,000 dead people voted in that one, too.)

"Mutts" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

("MikeM" wrote)
Bush is an IDIOT!


Bush has the great (double) misfortune of being:

1. One of our least intelligent Presidents.
2. Following one of the most intelligent Presidents this country has
ever
had.


I would not have anything bad sad against Bush. Last time I spent Christmas
in Florida was when they were still trying to work out who won the election.
That year I got about $1.40 for each pound sterling.

This year I am getting $1.70 for each pound.

21% not bad. Attaboy Bushie, continue making my day.

Dave

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...

Hey, at least he made President Carter look good.


Carter was a poor president, no question about it. But when Carter spoke
I
tended to believe he meant what he said, that he was sincere if misguided.
I never believed a word Clinton said.

Problem with Politicians I never believe them anyway and I pity anyone naive
enough to believe them. Ergo I pity politicians because they have the
unfortunate habit of believing themselves too. In respect of Clinton, I do
not pity him because he did not believe himself and in that respect he was
not your average politician.

Anyway all they want is power.

Dave