Laser beams being aimed at airliners?

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 09:55:15 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote in ::

Larry Dighera wrote:


These days, in the metropolitan areas there are microphones on every
traffic-controlled intersection that can be used to triangulate the
report of the weapon to determine its location. Lasers don't make a
sound.

Do have a cite for that "fact"?

To which fact are you referring? If you're referring to the silent
operation of lasers, just click your laser pointer and listen.

If you are referring to the sonic location of gun shots in urban
locations, here's a clue:
http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~jferraro/gu...sal_ver2_0.pdf

525 more clues he
http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_...&vc=&fl=0&n=10

It seems that he was simply stupid and thoughtless. It's doubtful that
he knew that it would "flood the cockpit" with light. People think
lasers will just show a tiny dot even at a great distance.

Previous to his arrest I was thinking that the FBI should put out a
warning that shining lasers into cockpits would result in being charged
with the intent to murder x people (x = however many souls are on
board). But now I'm just shaking my head at his immaturity. He didn't
have the intent to hurt anyone, he was just showing off, not knowing it
was a really bad idea. Something any kid would probably do as well.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 09:55:15 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote in ::

Larry Dighera wrote:


These days, in the metropolitan areas there are microphones on every
traffic-controlled intersection that can be used to triangulate the
report of the weapon to determine its location. Lasers don't make a
sound.

Do have a cite for that "fact"?

To which fact are you referring? If you're referring to the silent
operation of lasers, just click your laser pointer and listen.

If you are referring to the sonic location of gun shots in urban
locations, here's a clue:
http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~jferraro/gu...sal_ver2_0.pdf

525 more clues he
http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_...&vc=&fl=0&n=10


The first link is hardly a cite for your statement "These days, in the
metropolitan areas there are microphones on every traffic-controlled
intersection that can be used to triangulate the report of the weapon to
determine its location." It is a proposal written in 2001 for such a system
but quotes a DOJ report that pretty much says it would only be useful for
statistical and planning purposes. (See Below)

As for the other 524 other links via that search #2 has not a damn thing to
do with gunshot location and #3 has to do with the JFK shooting. So i
stopped looking.

So the request is still out there. Do you have any cite for your theory that
there are microphones scattered over metro areas to triangulate gunshots?

3.2 Reviews/Criticism of Gun Shot Detection

There are many reviews that analyze the benefits and handicaps produced by a
gun shot

detection system. In a report issued by the U.S. Department of Justice, the
pros and cons

of gun shot detection were evaluated. The following points were presented
against gun

shot detection systems.[2]


The technology is likely to increase the workloads of police officers,

particularly if departments dispatch a patrol unit to every gunfire incident

detected by a technological system.


Gunshot detection systems are not likely to lead to more arrests of people

firing weapons in urban settings because it is highly unlikely that
offenders

will stay at a gunshot location long enough for the police to arrive.

To balance the negative results obtained from the experimenting with gun
shot detection,

the department credited that the systems would be beneficial for the
following reasons.


Gunshot detection systems are likely to reveal important statistics of
rather high

citizen under-reporting rates of random gunfire problems.


Gunshot detection systems seem to offer the most potential as a

problem-solving tool and would fit nicely within the emerging problem
oriented

policing paradigm. The technology can help police identify random gunfire
hot spots and

develop strategies to address the problem.

C J Campbell wrote:


"Frank" wrote in message ...
Larry Dighera wrote:

And now this from CNN:
http://tinyurl.com/497uv

Of course I'm glad they caught this guy but this part is troubling:



So they don't have anything else about interfering with air traffic
besides
the "Patriot" Act?

No. But they are going to throw the book at him and charge him with every
crime that he has violated. Are you suggesting that this dope should not
be prosecuted?

Not at all. Wherever did you get that impression? Since they didn't
(couldn't?) charge him for the helicopter incident I'm left with the
impression that the only thing they had was the "Patriot" act. Seems like
interfering with airplanes, trains, buses, freeways etc would be covered
under laws that precede Sept. 11.

And I do find it troubling that in one breath they say there is no evidence
of terrorist activity and in the next they, in effect, charge him with that
very thing. Considering all the rhetoric attempting to allay fears about
potential abuses of power inherent in the "Patriot" act this doesn't do
much for their credibility.


--
Frank....H

Frank wrote:

And I do find it troubling that in one breath they say there is no evidence
of terrorist activity and in the next they, in effect, charge him with that
very thing. Considering all the rhetoric attempting to allay fears about
potential abuses of power inherent in the "Patriot" act this doesn't do
much for their credibility.

Normal procedure in criminal cases is to charge the suspect with any and all
statutes they can think of, whether they apply or not. After consideration by
the prosecuting attorneys, inapplicable charges are typically dropped, but some
may be pressed just to give the DA bargaining power. Credibility usually doesn't
enter into the picture - it's simply not important until the case gets before a
jury.

Based on the statements made so far, they can certainly bring charges of
assault, including assaulting a police officer in the performance of his duty.
That wouldn't get them the publicity they want, and they probably feel that the
penalties for that are too light to serve as a deterrent to others.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:05:22 -0600, "Gig Giacona"
wrote in
::


So the request is still out there. Do you have any cite for your theory that
there are microphones scattered over metro areas to triangulate gunshots?


http://student-voices.org/news/index.php3?NewsID=10195
April 7, 2004
Police cams to add gunshot detectors

by Fran Spielman, City Hall Reporter
Chicago Sun-Times

Chicago - Big Brother isn't just watching the bad guys in Chicago. By
late summer, he'll be listening as well -- for the sound of gunshots.

Gunshot detection technology -- capable of "triangulating within 20
feet" the location of a shooting -- is being added to 30 surveillance
cameras already in place on high-crime corners and to 50 new cameras
expected to be installed by late summer at undisclosed locations.
....

-----------------------------------------

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/10810.html
11/30/04
Waiting for the Gun
A USC engineer uses his expertise with nerve cells to create a
surveillance system that can recognize the sound of a nearby gunshot -
and identify the shooter. In a unique pilot program, L.A. and Chicago
will deploy test units in high-crime areas.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.nlectc.org/techbeat/winte...otWinter01.pdf
Until recently, the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department
(LASD) had no idea how many incidents of actual
gunfire occurred near its Century Station, one of the highest
crime areas in Los Angeles County. Some were random
shots fired into the air; others were drive-by shootings.
Some were nothing more than firecrackers or backfiring
cars. Either way, the majority went unreported.
But a new technology may make this lack of reporting a
thing of the past. Although still in the experimental phase,
gunshot detection technologies are showing promise as a
new way to detect and pinpoint the location of gunfire.
Based on acoustic sensing technology, these location
systems consist of sensors or microphones that detect
the sound of gunfire, transmitters that send a “location
message” to the dispatch center, and a computer that
receives and displays the message. When the message
arrives at the police station, the dispatcher can have a
patrol unit respond to the call.
LASD installed a trial system just days before the millennium
New Year’s Eve. The department inundated citizens
with information, staging a press conference to brief
everyone from the local weekly newspapers to the major
television networks, national news agencies, and even
the foreign media. Department officials made it clear that
if a citizen fired a weapon, the system would detect it,
and deputies would not hesitate to arrest the shooter. On
December 31, 1999, in a brief 3-hour period, the Century
Station system detected 1,100 incidents of gunfire. ...

------------------------------------------------

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles1/nij/179274.txt
Discussed in this Brief: The findings of two field studies of acoustic
sensing systems designed to detect the sound of a muzzle blast from a
gun and, within seconds of the shot being fired, triangulate within
some margin of error the location from which the shot was fired,
before alerting the police about the gunshot. The research team
examined the effectiveness of Trilon Technology's ShotSpotter
[trademark) system, which the local police department has operated in
Redwood City, California, since early 1996, and the Alliant
Techsystems Inc.'s SECURES [trademark] system, which police instlled
for 2 months in a neighborhood with high levels of random gunfire in
Dallas, Texas, in 1996. ...

-----------------------------------------------

Mo
http://www.shotspotter.com/inthenews.shtml
http://viterbi.usc.edu/news/news/200...22_gunshot.htm
http://www.maximumpda.com/comments.php?id=311_0_1_0_C

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 09:11:02 -0500, Corky Scott wrote:

US District Attorney Christopher J. Christie is quoted as saying:"We
have to send a clear message to the public that there is no harmless
mischief when it comes to airplanes, Mr. Banach's actions as alleged
in the criminal complaint put innocent lives at risk. That is illegal
and unacceptable." I agree with Mr. Christie.

yeah. sending out a message. like the one who was sentences to 55 years in
prison for dealing Marijuhana. yeah. sure.

The manufacturer of the laser pointer expressed regret that his
product had been used in such a manner.

in times like these, and for the security of the Homeland, the manufacturer
should stop the production of the laser immediately and offer huge payments
to everybody involved.

#m

--
Oh. God. What have we done.

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 09:11:02 -0500, Corky Scott wrote:

US District Attorney Christopher J. Christie is quoted as saying:"We
have to send a clear message to the public that there is no harmless
mischief when it comes to airplanes, Mr. Banach's actions as alleged
in the criminal complaint put innocent lives at risk. That is illegal
and unacceptable." I agree with Mr. Christie.

yeah. sending out a message. like the one who was sentences to 55 years in
prison for dealing Marijuhana. yeah. sure.

The manufacturer of the laser pointer expressed regret that his
product had been used in such a manner.

in times like these, and for the security of the Homeland, the
manufacturer
should stop the production of the laser immediately and offer huge
payments
to everybody involved.

I suppose the same goes for automobile and truck manufacturers throughout
the world. Sheesh.


#m

--
Oh. God. What have we done.

"Larry Dighera" wrote
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 09:55:15 -0700, "Matt Barrow"

Lasers don't make a
sound.

Do have a cite for that "fact"?

To which fact are you referring?

This:

"These days, in the metropolitan areas there are microphones on every
traffic-controlled intersection that can be used to triangulate the
report of the weapon to determine its location."

If you are referring to the sonic location of gun shots in urban
locations, here's a clue:
http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~jferraro/gu...sal_ver2_0.pdf

Nope.

525 more clues he
http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_...&vc=&fl=0&n=10

Nope.

moo

Sorry for the top post. But I think you might want to revise your initial
claim. The point the original poster made was that it would be easy to
shoot at planes and remain undetected. Your claim of a system to foil such
attempts existing at every major controlled intersection isn't true. And,
even if it did exist, somebody shooting at planes from a field near an
airport (gee, are there many of these?) is not going to be threatened by
such a system.

moo


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:05:22 -0600, "Gig Giacona"
wrote in
::


So the request is still out there. Do you have any cite for your theory
that
there are microphones scattered over metro areas to triangulate gunshots?


http://student-voices.org/news/index.php3?NewsID=10195
April 7, 2004
Police cams to add gunshot detectors

by Fran Spielman, City Hall Reporter
Chicago Sun-Times

Chicago - Big Brother isn't just watching the bad guys in Chicago. By
late summer, he'll be listening as well -- for the sound of gunshots.

Gunshot detection technology -- capable of "triangulating within 20
feet" the location of a shooting -- is being added to 30 surveillance
cameras already in place on high-crime corners and to 50 new cameras
expected to be installed by late summer at undisclosed locations.
...

-----------------------------------------

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/10810.html
11/30/04
Waiting for the Gun
A USC engineer uses his expertise with nerve cells to create a
surveillance system that can recognize the sound of a nearby gunshot -
and identify the shooter. In a unique pilot program, L.A. and Chicago
will deploy test units in high-crime areas.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.nlectc.org/techbeat/winte...otWinter01.pdf
Until recently, the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department
(LASD) had no idea how many incidents of actual
gunfire occurred near its Century Station, one of the highest
crime areas in Los Angeles County. Some were random
shots fired into the air; others were drive-by shootings.
Some were nothing more than firecrackers or backfiring
cars. Either way, the majority went unreported.
But a new technology may make this lack of reporting a
thing of the past. Although still in the experimental phase,
gunshot detection technologies are showing promise as a
new way to detect and pinpoint the location of gunfire.
Based on acoustic sensing technology, these location
systems consist of sensors or microphones that detect
the sound of gunfire, transmitters that send a "location
message" to the dispatch center, and a computer that
receives and displays the message. When the message
arrives at the police station, the dispatcher can have a
patrol unit respond to the call.
LASD installed a trial system just days before the millennium
New Year's Eve. The department inundated citizens
with information, staging a press conference to brief
everyone from the local weekly newspapers to the major
television networks, national news agencies, and even
the foreign media. Department officials made it clear that
if a citizen fired a weapon, the system would detect it,
and deputies would not hesitate to arrest the shooter. On
December 31, 1999, in a brief 3-hour period, the Century
Station system detected 1,100 incidents of gunfire. ...

------------------------------------------------

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles1/nij/179274.txt
Discussed in this Brief: The findings of two field studies of acoustic
sensing systems designed to detect the sound of a muzzle blast from a
gun and, within seconds of the shot being fired, triangulate within
some margin of error the location from which the shot was fired,
before alerting the police about the gunshot. The research team
examined the effectiveness of Trilon Technology's ShotSpotter
[trademark) system, which the local police department has operated in
Redwood City, California, since early 1996, and the Alliant
Techsystems Inc.'s SECURES [trademark] system, which police instlled
for 2 months in a neighborhood with high levels of random gunfire in
Dallas, Texas, in 1996. ...

-----------------------------------------------

Mo
http://www.shotspotter.com/inthenews.shtml
http://viterbi.usc.edu/news/news/200...22_gunshot.htm
http://www.maximumpda.com/comments.php?id=311_0_1_0_C