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Flight review required?



 
 
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  #61  
Old April 26th 19, 12:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SoaringXCellence
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Posts: 385
Default Flight review required?

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:28:07 PM UTC-7, SoaringXCellence wrote:
However a WINGS phase has both knowledge and flight elements. What flight elements are you planning on doing in the glider?


I just went back and reviewed the WINGS program process to confirm my understanding.

FYI: I am a FAAST WINGS representative and I do a lot of validation for pilots in my area. I'm also a pilot examiner for airplanes and gliders.

The WINGS flight activities are related to the current pilot certificate you hold. You cannot do glider flight activities to complete a WINGS phase if you do not hold a glider rating. That's the rub. You CAN use the glider knowledge activities to fill the required 3 knowledge credits, but the flight activities need to be in the category/class of aircraft for which you CURRENTLY hold a certificate.

As noted in the WINGS program brochu there is no requirement for the flight activities to be done on separate days (but it is recommended) nor is it required that the activities be done in separate flights or for longer than is needed for the CFI to determine that you skills are appropriate for your certificate level. It actually might be cheaper to do a short flight in the SEL to show proficiency than to do a few more tows in the glider.

My short answer (I know too late) is to participate in the SSA webinars (and others) while you train. Refresh your flight skills during glider training time then find a CFI in airplanes that is willing to do a short airplane review flight and sign off your WINGS activities. You can then be signed off to do PIC flights in a category/class aircraft for which you are not rated (glider) and get your solo requirements completed to take the practical test.

Whew!

  #62  
Old April 26th 19, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jp
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Posts: 59
Default Flight review required?

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 4:02:21 PM UTC-7, SoaringXCellence wrote:
On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 3:28:07 PM UTC-7, SoaringXCellence wrote:
However a WINGS phase has both knowledge and flight elements. What flight elements are you planning on doing in the glider?


I just went back and reviewed the WINGS program process to confirm my understanding.

FYI: I am a FAAST WINGS representative and I do a lot of validation for pilots in my area. I'm also a pilot examiner for airplanes and gliders.

The WINGS flight activities are related to the current pilot certificate you hold. You cannot do glider flight activities to complete a WINGS phase if you do not hold a glider rating. That's the rub. You CAN use the glider knowledge activities to fill the required 3 knowledge credits, but the flight activities need to be in the category/class of aircraft for which you CURRENTLY hold a certificate.

As noted in the WINGS program brochu there is no requirement for the flight activities to be done on separate days (but it is recommended) nor is it required that the activities be done in separate flights or for longer than is needed for the CFI to determine that you skills are appropriate for your certificate level. It actually might be cheaper to do a short flight in the SEL to show proficiency than to do a few more tows in the glider.

My short answer (I know too late) is to participate in the SSA webinars (and others) while you train. Refresh your flight skills during glider training time then find a CFI in airplanes that is willing to do a short airplane review flight and sign off your WINGS activities. You can then be signed off to do PIC flights in a category/class aircraft for which you are not rated (glider) and get your solo requirements completed to take the practical test.

Whew!


Thank you. To be honest, this makes sense to me. To my student maybe not so much. I'll pass along the info.
  #63  
Old June 25th 19, 10:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Piet Barber
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Posts: 58
Default Flight review required?


The WINGS flight activities are related to the current pilot certificate you hold. You cannot do glider flight activities to complete a WINGS phase if you do not hold a glider rating. That's the rub. You CAN use the glider knowledge activities to fill the required 3 knowledge credits, but the flight activities need to be in the category/class of aircraft for which you CURRENTLY hold a certificate.


I can find no such prohibition in AC-61-91J.
I can find no such prohibition in the FAA WINGS pilot proficiency guide.
I can find no prohibitions in the software running the FAA WINGS page.
I can find no such prohibition in reading 14 CFR 61.56
I can find no such prohibition in AC-61-98D
I can find no such prohibition as a flight instructor validating activity credit in the FAA WINGS page.
I have received no such guidance as a DPE.
I have received no such guidance from my FSDO.

Unless you can correct me with chapter and verse, I believe you are in error on this specific point.

Please back up the following claim [but the flight activities need to be in the category/class of aircraft for which you CURRENTLY hold a certificate. ] with a specific document from the FAA that says this.

While I agree that a certificated pilot can not do a 61.56 flight review in a category he does not hold, WINGS activity credit is not 61.56 flight review activity. Remember that 61.56 flight activity is not required with successful completion of a phase of the FAA WINGS program. Do not conflate the two points, which I believe you have done.

My position: If an airplane-rated private pilot with no glider category rating (Let's call him Joe Pilot), hasn't flown in several years wishes to have solo privileges in a glider, he must accomplish the requirements of 61.56.. This was the finding of the Beard interpretation, as annoying as it is to us. Joe Pilot is unable to do a 61.56 flight review in a glider since he does not hold a rating in gliders. Our ASEL pilot friend is faced with some crappy options:

1) Surrender his ASEL pilot certificate, then apply for a student pilot certificate, go through the TSA background check and waiting period. Once he has the new student pilot certificate in hand, Joe Pilot gets the instructor to do a 61.87 endorsement. This is a terrible option and I sincerely hope that none of us ever recommend this.

2) Go get a BFR in airplanes. Come back with his fresh BFR, and then he can solo gliders after he gets a 61.31 category sign-off. If Joe Pilot has no desire to ever touch an airplane again, this option sucks, too.

3) Complete WINGS credit with flying gliders as the activity credit. The glider flying portion sections that would qualify a A070405-135, A070405-26, and A100125-31. These are all glider-related activities. Accomplish the knowledge portions as necessary. After doing the knowledge portion and the flying portions, Joe Pilot gets a sign-off from his instructor. The FAA WINGS page says "Congratulations" and gives him a PDF to print out, both frame-size and wallet sized. Joe Pilot prints this out, and now he's OK with regard to 14 CFR 61.56(e).

Once he has the WINGS certificate, he does not need the 1 hour of flying in an airplane and one hour of ground instruction required in order to accomplish the 61.56 flight review. Joe Pilot then gets a 61.31 endorsement for solo flight in an additional category and enjoys that solo flight in a glider. He never had to touch an airplane again unless he's hooking up the rope to the tow plane.

What I believe your post describes of my three options:
1) not mentioned
2) The only option
3) not possible, since he does not have a rating in gliders, he can not do glider activity credits in gliders, so Joe Pilot is stuck with only Options #1 and #2.


Full disclosu I have accredited the flying portions of WINGS credit for an airplane pilot in this position. I know that the FAA WINGS page does not prohibit this activity, there are no warnings against it, and there was no dialog in the page that I was signing indicating that it would be a problem.

 




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