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"Refusing to Handle You"



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 16th 05, 11:08 PM
Mike Granby
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Default "Refusing to Handle You"


So, an interesting thing happened today. I am at a fly-in at Hagerstown
and about to head back to my home-base at York (THV). I can see from
the PC they had there that there is a line of heavy rain and possibly
thunderstorms blocking my route back. There is no way around it to the
north, but there is a way to the south. So, instead of the usual
KHGR-SCAPE-THV to take me north of Camp David, I file a route via
HGR-MRB-EMI to so south and get in to York through the back door.
When I pick up my clearance, I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions." So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather. I ask for a hold at HGR to consider my
options, and luckily, by now the StormScope is showing the line has
dissipated. Now, I'm not happy, 'cos I know there's been cells
appearing along that route all PM, but I have little choice, so I take
the SCAPE route. All ends well, and we have an almost smooth ride, but
I was amazed that they gave me a clearance for that route, and then
wouldn't honor it! Comments???

  #2  
Old July 16th 05, 11:58 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Default


"Mike Granby" wrote in message
ups.com...

So, an interesting thing happened today. I am at a fly-in at Hagerstown
and about to head back to my home-base at York (THV). I can see from
the PC they had there that there is a line of heavy rain and possibly
thunderstorms blocking my route back. There is no way around it to the
north, but there is a way to the south. So, instead of the usual
KHGR-SCAPE-THV to take me north of Camp David, I file a route via
HGR-MRB-EMI to so south and get in to York through the back door.
When I pick up my clearance, I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions." So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather. I ask for a hold at HGR to consider my
options, and luckily, by now the StormScope is showing the line has
dissipated. Now, I'm not happy, 'cos I know there's been cells
appearing along that route all PM, but I have little choice, so I take
the SCAPE route. All ends well, and we have an almost smooth ride, but
I was amazed that they gave me a clearance for that route, and then
wouldn't honor it! Comments???


Some TRACONs simply do not handle thruflights, that may be the case here.
One way around that is to make a stop at a field within that TRACON's
airspace. Then you're not a thruflight, you're an arrival and a departure.


  #3  
Old July 17th 05, 12:07 AM
Mike Granby
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Default


One way around that is to make a stop
at a field within that TRACON's airspace.


I know someone who pulled this trick on NYC TRACON once, but he even
had the nerve to call them as he neared the airport he'd file to, and
ask to change his destination to where he really want to go!
Apparently, there was much sighing from the controller, but in the end,
the pilot got what he wanted.

  #4  
Old July 17th 05, 12:27 AM
Michelle P
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Default

Mike,
A phone call to their QA/QC dept. in order.
540-349-7500 main number
540-349-7548 QC dept. if no answer in a couple of days call the number
below.
540-349-7505 for the QC Manager.
Have the time, frequency and tail number ready. You will likely need to
leave a phone message.
Let them know they refused the hand off from Washington.
Michelle

Mike Granby wrote:

So, an interesting thing happened today. I am at a fly-in at Hagerstown
and about to head back to my home-base at York (THV). I can see from
the PC they had there that there is a line of heavy rain and possibly
thunderstorms blocking my route back. There is no way around it to the
north, but there is a way to the south. So, instead of the usual
KHGR-SCAPE-THV to take me north of Camp David, I file a route via
HGR-MRB-EMI to so south and get in to York through the back door.
When I pick up my clearance, I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions." So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather. I ask for a hold at HGR to consider my
options, and luckily, by now the StormScope is showing the line has
dissipated. Now, I'm not happy, 'cos I know there's been cells
appearing along that route all PM, but I have little choice, so I take
the SCAPE route. All ends well, and we have an almost smooth ride, but
I was amazed that they gave me a clearance for that route, and then
wouldn't honor it! Comments???




  #5  
Old July 17th 05, 01:00 AM
A Lieberman
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 16 Jul 2005 15:08:22 -0700, Mike Granby wrote:

southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions."


Mike,

You are PIC. I would have declared an emergency and squawked 7700.

Go to http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report_sets_nf.htm and download the .pdf
file weather encounters. Happens more frequently then I ever expected.

Allen
  #6  
Old July 17th 05, 01:28 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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Posts: n/a
Default


"A Lieberman" wrote in message
.. .

You are PIC. I would have declared an emergency and squawked 7700.


What would the emergency be?


  #7  
Old July 17th 05, 01:29 AM
Warren Jones
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Michelle P" wrote in message
nk.net...
Mike,
A phone call to their QA/QC dept. in order.
540-349-7500 main number
540-349-7548 QC dept. if no answer in a couple of days call the number
below.
540-349-7505 for the QC Manager.
Have the time, frequency and tail number ready. You will likely need to
leave a phone message.
Let them know they refused the hand off from Washington.
Michelle


Michelle, what good would come of such a phone call? QA will give you lip
service, but you'd be wasting your time calling about this IMO.

Chip, ZTL


  #8  
Old July 17th 05, 01:38 AM
Mike Granby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Well, I can just about understand if Potomac doesn't want to handle
routes like that, but they ought to find a way of making sure that
clearances don't get issued that contain those routes. I would have
liked to have been able to plan my other options on the ground with a
PC in front of me, instead of in the air relying on the variable
accuracy of 'spherics.

  #9  
Old July 17th 05, 02:16 AM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mike Granby wrote:
So, an interesting thing happened today. I am at a fly-in at Hagerstown
and about to head back to my home-base at York (THV). I can see from
the PC they had there that there is a line of heavy rain and possibly
thunderstorms blocking my route back. There is no way around it to the
north, but there is a way to the south. So, instead of the usual
KHGR-SCAPE-THV to take me north of Camp David, I file a route via
HGR-MRB-EMI to so south and get in to York through the back door.
When I pick up my clearance, I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions." So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather. I ask for a hold at HGR to consider my
options, and luckily, by now the StormScope is showing the line has
dissipated. Now, I'm not happy, 'cos I know there's been cells
appearing along that route all PM, but I have little choice, so I take
the SCAPE route. All ends well, and we have an almost smooth ride, but
I was amazed that they gave me a clearance for that route, and then
wouldn't honor it! Comments???


That's a new one for me. I've not had that happen in 10+ years of
flying IFR.

Matt
  #10  
Old July 17th 05, 02:17 AM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Mike Granby" wrote in message
ups.com...

So, an interesting thing happened today. I am at a fly-in at Hagerstown
and about to head back to my home-base at York (THV). I can see from
the PC they had there that there is a line of heavy rain and possibly
thunderstorms blocking my route back. There is no way around it to the
north, but there is a way to the south. So, instead of the usual
KHGR-SCAPE-THV to take me north of Camp David, I file a route via
HGR-MRB-EMI to so south and get in to York through the back door.
When I pick up my clearance, I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions." So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather. I ask for a hold at HGR to consider my
options, and luckily, by now the StormScope is showing the line has
dissipated. Now, I'm not happy, 'cos I know there's been cells
appearing along that route all PM, but I have little choice, so I take
the SCAPE route. All ends well, and we have an almost smooth ride, but
I was amazed that they gave me a clearance for that route, and then
wouldn't honor it! Comments???



Some TRACONs simply do not handle thruflights, that may be the case here.
One way around that is to make a stop at a field within that TRACON's
airspace. Then you're not a thruflight, you're an arrival and a departure.



Shouldn't that be taken into consideration by ATC prior to issuance of
the clearance?


Matt
 




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