Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other magnificent technological achievements)

Subject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other
magnificent technological achievements)
From: "weary"
Date: 12/27/03 6:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: (cave fish)

snip

The horror of Hiroshima is the sheer indiscrimate nature of the
destruction. If atom bomb had been dropped on a Japanese military
target it might have been justified. But, to kill like that in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki was blind and savage overkill.

There WERE military targets in Nagasaki and Hiroshima and I'm not talking
about
the civilians.

Nagasaki was a functioning port. Hiroshima had a army divisions and
training
facilities as well as some mines with POWs working in them.

If you had been following this thread you'd have known this by now.

The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.



As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the Enola
Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst war
the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

What were you doing on those particular days? What was the environment
like when everyone heard the news?

ArtKramr wrote:

Subject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other
magnificent technological achievements)
From: "weary"
Date: 12/27/03 6:06 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"B2431" wrote in message
...


From: (cave fish)


snip



The horror of Hiroshima is the sheer indiscrimate nature of the
destruction. If atom bomb had been dropped on a Japanese military
target it might have been justified. But, to kill like that in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki was blind and savage overkill.



There WERE military targets in Nagasaki and Hiroshima and I'm not talking


about


the civilians.

Nagasaki was a functioning port. Hiroshima had a army divisions and


training


facilities as well as some mines with POWs working in them.

If you had been following this thread you'd have known this by now.


The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.





As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the Enola
Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst war
the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"weary" wrote:

The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was
aimed.

The aim point for the Hiroshima bomb was the city center, easily marked
because of the bridge and the split in the river.

The aim point was between the Military District Headquarters and the
Prefectural Office (and near the City Hall, too). The area of total
destruction encompassed most of the major military structures and
organizations in the city, including the 11th Infantry Regiment and the
Headquarters of the 5th Division. Partial destruction included the
area's weaponry depots and Army clothing depot.

So your description of the aim point as a "mainly residential area" is,
quite simply, misleading.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

(Peter Stickney) wrote in message ...

You're forgetting the Primary Rule of the Theat
"When the going gets tough, the actors go home."

Perhaps the actors have gone home because they were smart enough to
notice that the playbill has been translated into Russian, which has
frightened away the audience and eliminates any need to incinerate
season subscribers.

No, sport, it's because they're afraid that you might actually have to
sweat. You know, dealing with all those unfair things like learning
lines, or putting your props where you can find them again, or
actually hitting you mark underneath those awful, bright, lights.

Gosh, Pete - Did my puns really fly THAT far above your radar? My bad
- I'll be sure to dumb them down next time.

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 02:06:46 GMT, "weary" wrote:


The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
definition
the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.


Which of course is a lie.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agor...hirodamap.html

Ohh look at that. The HQ of the local military district right in the zone
of complete destruction.


greg


--
Once you try my burger baby,you'll grow a new thyroid gland.
I said just eat my burger, baby,make you smart as Charlie Chan.
You say the hot sauce can't be beat. Sit back and open wide.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:34:43 -0500, (Peter
Stickney) wrote:

In article ,
writes:
(Peter Stickney) wrote in message ...

Dismissed. As in, you have no answer for them. As for loaded, how
so? They are all real concerns, dating from the time. Do you have
any way the war could have been concluded without the use of atomic
weapons and without a drastically increased body count?

You're forgetting the Primary Rule of the Theat
"When the going gets tough, the actors go home."

Perhaps the actors have gone home because they were smart enough to
notice that the playbill has been translated into Russian, which has
frightened away the audience and eliminates any need to incinerate
season subscribers.

No, sport, it's because they're afraid that you might actually have to
sweat. You know, dealing with all those unfair things like learning
lines, or putting your props where you can find them again, or
actually hitting you mark underneath those awful, bright, lights.
Now be good, or I'll have one of my minions slip Stage Weights into
your valise.


I notice that Theatre6 has failed to answer any of those simple
questoins I posted. The obvious conclusion is that he doesn't have
any answers.
As I said, he fails logic 101.

ArtKramr ) wrote:

....

: The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
: residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
: definition
: the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.
:
:

: As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the Enola
: Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst war
: the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.

I was going to answer a previous question about "What was Art
doing on that day?" by pointing out that the war in Europe had ended
three months earlier. But it sounds like many Air Force personnel
were still in Europe.

Charles Gray wrote in message . ..

In article ,
writes:

Perhaps the actors have gone home because they were smart enough to
notice that the playbill has been translated into Russian, which has
frightened away the audience and eliminates any need to incinerate
season subscribers.

I notice that Theatre6 has failed to answer any of those simple
questoins I posted. The obvious conclusion is that he doesn't have
any answers.
As I said, he fails logic 101.

Was that before or after you failed your community college seminar on
Reading Between the Lines? No worries - maybe Greg will let you share
his thinking cap while you both embark on a re-read of my 12/27 post.

*Sigh* - sarcastic wordplay can be such a lonely business.

On 28 Dec 2003 14:24:44 -0800, wrote:

Charles Gray wrote in message . ..

In article ,
writes:

Perhaps the actors have gone home because they were smart enough to
notice that the playbill has been translated into Russian, which has
frightened away the audience and eliminates any need to incinerate
season subscribers.

I notice that Theatre6 has failed to answer any of those simple
questoins I posted. The obvious conclusion is that he doesn't have
any answers.
As I said, he fails logic 101.

Was that before or after you failed your community college seminar on
Reading Between the Lines? No worries - maybe Greg will let you share
his thinking cap while you both embark on a re-read of my 12/27 post.

*Sigh* - sarcastic wordplay can be such a lonely business.
Actually no. Here are the questions. Answer them.

I'm sorry, you flunk logic 101. Please return for next semesters
course. In order to prepare you for your second course, answer the
following questions.

Assume a total death toll of 100,000 people from atomic weapons,
100,000 people from firebombming raids, 100,000 from general ground
combat, and 100,000 from counter-insurgency operations in China.
How do you define the deaths caused by atomic weapons as somehow
"less moral" than those from other causes. If an atomic weapon *is*
less moral, why? What innate quality of being blown up through the
mass energy conversion of fissionable material makes it worse than
being fried by napalm, shot by bullets or gassed by Chlorine.
There. A very simple answer should be possible, given your vast
knowledge.

ubject: Hiroshima justified? (was Enola Gay: Burnt flesh and other
magnificent technological achievements)
From: Merlin Dorfman
Date: 12/28/03 1:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr ) wrote:

...

: The aiming point for the Hiroshima bomb was a bridge in a mainly
: residential area, not any of the military or industrial assets. By
: definition
: the target was civilians since that is where the bomb was aimed.
:
:

: As a trained and experienced bombardier I wish I could have been on the
Enola
: Gay that day. I would have had the honor of bringing to an end the worst
war
: the world has ever seen.But I was busy in Eirope at that time.

I was going to answer a previous question about "What was Art
doing on that day?" by pointing out that the war in Europe had ended
three months earlier. But it sounds like many Air Force personnel
were still in Europe.


We were preparing to go over to Japan when the bomb dropped and we were
cancelled. I think that saved my life. I don't know if I could have made it
through both wars.The odds go down with time.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer