Skyhawk vs. Mooney

I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference
of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a
little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some
thoughts.

On May 8, 10:03 am, Grant wrote:
I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference
of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a
little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some
thoughts.

Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the
Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does 150 knots vs. the 172's 100ish knots on
that fuel. The M20C also sells for about the same price as the 172.
However, a M20C is more maintenance than a 172 and requires an A&P
that has more specialized knowledge (all A&Ps know how to work on
172s). Also, insurance could be a big difference. The retractable gear
will cost you somewhere between $500 to $2000 per year additional
depending on the amount of retract time you have.
A couple things to check for in a Mooney...
1) Fuel leaks. Mooneys have no fuel tanks, just sealant on the skin to
hold fuel in. Every so many years an owner is well advised to go into
the tanks and freshen up the sealent. If you are very rich you may pay
someone to totally replace the sealant but that is rarely required.
2) Gear actuator. If the Mooney you are looking at has electric gear
make sure the AD has been complied with the check the actuator gear.
Technically this is a recurrent AD but if the gears aren't chewed up
the first time you look, chances are you didn't get the bad lot and
will be good forever.
3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having
to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all
flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100
hours. There is really no way to do this without totally taking the
plane apart (figure 10 hours of your time to remove all the panels
unless you have a one-piece belly). By the time you pull all the
panels off to lube you've basically set up for an annual anyway. Some
A&Ps consider this unnecessary and will sign off the 100hr ADs for 3
hours of labor, but there is no way they are actually meeting the
strict requirements of the AD in that time. However, know that there
are many Mooney owners out there that haven't properly lubed their
plane in 10 years and are flying all the time so you aren't going to
fall from the sky.

-Robert, CFII (and Mooney instructor)

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 8, 10:03 am, Grant wrote:
I was simply wondering if someone could break down the cost difference
of a 172 and M20. Obviously maintenance on a mooney is going to be a
little more and the fuel burn is a gallon or so more, so just some
thoughts.

Depends on the Mooney. The M20C has about the same full burn as the
Skyhawk (8 gal/hr) but does 150 knots vs. the 172's 100ish knots on
that fuel. The M20C also sells for about the same price as the 172.
However, a M20C is more maintenance than a 172 and requires an A&P
that has more specialized knowledge (all A&Ps know how to work on
172s). Also, insurance could be a big difference. The retractable gear
will cost you somewhere between $500 to $2000 per year additional
depending on the amount of retract time you have.
A couple things to check for in a Mooney...
1) Fuel leaks. Mooneys have no fuel tanks, just sealant on the skin to
hold fuel in. Every so many years an owner is well advised to go into
the tanks and freshen up the sealent. If you are very rich you may pay
someone to totally replace the sealant but that is rarely required.
2) Gear actuator. If the Mooney you are looking at has electric gear
make sure the AD has been complied with the check the actuator gear.
Technically this is a recurrent AD but if the gears aren't chewed up
the first time you look, chances are you didn't get the bad lot and
will be good forever.
3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having
to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all
flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100
hours. There is really no way to do this without totally taking the
plane apart (figure 10 hours of your time to remove all the panels
unless you have a one-piece belly). By the time you pull all the
panels off to lube you've basically set up for an annual anyway. Some
A&Ps consider this unnecessary and will sign off the 100hr ADs for 3
hours of labor, but there is no way they are actually meeting the
strict requirements of the AD in that time. However, know that there
are many Mooney owners out there that haven't properly lubed their
plane in 10 years and are flying all the time so you aren't going to
fall from the sky.

-Robert, CFII (and Mooney instructor)

The M20C also has a wooden wing doesn't it?

Al G, Mooney record holder

Al G wrote:

The M20C also has a wooden wing doesn't it?


Nope. The M20Cs are all metal. I think the last wood-winged version was
the M20A in 1960.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200705/1

On May 8, 2:05 pm, "flynrider via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Al G wrote:

The M20C also has a wooden wing doesn't it?

Nope. The M20Cs are all metal. I think the last wood-winged version was
the M20A in 1960.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.comhttp://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200705/1

That's correct. I've flown in both an A and a J. The A owner
absoluetely loves his A. There is nothing wrong with an A, in of it
self, but you need to keep it hangared.

Greg

Robert M. Gary wrote:

3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having
to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all
flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100
hours.

What AD is that? I'm not aware of that. Is it model-specific?

The only ones on my list a
inspection of fuel injector fuel lines required by AD 2002-26-01
inspection of Bendix magneto ignition switch required by AD 76-07-12
inspection of Bendix magneto impulse coupling required by AD 96-12-07

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having
to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all
flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100
hours.


What AD is that? I'm not aware of that. Is it model-specific?



If that's true that is a deal breaker. Take the plane apart every 100
hours for a lube job? Pathetic.

On May 9, 9:59 am, Newps wrote:
Dave Butler wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having
to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all
flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100
hours.

What AD is that? I'm not aware of that. Is it model-specific?

If that's true that is a deal breaker. Take the plane apart every 100
hours for a lube job? Pathetic.

Your Bonanza doesn't require lube every 100 hours? You probably have
less panels to pull but most high performance singles require lube and
landing gear inspection every 100 hours one AD or another.

-Robert

On 5/9/2007 1:40:13 PM, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

You probably have
less panels to pull but most high performance singles require lube and
landing gear inspection every 100 hours one AD or another.

My '73 V35b does not.

--
Peter

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On May 9, 9:59 am, Newps wrote:

Dave Butler wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:

3) Also, if you fly more than 100 hours a year, you will end up having
to do an annual every 100 hours. There is an AD that requires all
flight control connections and gear sections to be lubed every 100
hours.

What AD is that? I'm not aware of that. Is it model-specific?

If that's true that is a deal breaker. Take the plane apart every 100
hours for a lube job? Pathetic.


Your Bonanza doesn't require lube every 100 hours? You probably have
less panels to pull but most high performance singles require lube and
landing gear inspection every 100 hours one AD or another.


Yes, I do. It's a 10 minute deal however. You said you may as well
schedule the annual for every 100 hours because of all the labor
required to accomplish this. That's pathetic and an absolute deal breaker.