Ramp checked at AVP today

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:55:16 -0700, BTIZ wrote:

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

If the thought here is that you're surrendering your ticket by handing
them over, that's not how it's done. It's more complex than that and
requires a letter saying you're giving them up, they can't take it and say
so long sucker, and if they do, they're in hot water when you call the
FSDO immediately afterwards.

"dave" wrote in message
...
What is
"He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate." ?

it is the exterior data plate normally near the tail required for DEA

gliders are exempt

BT

I haven't heard about this. How does a data plate help the DEA?


"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:BFIdc.478$Va4.278@fed1read01...
"dave" wrote in message
...
What is
"He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate." ?

it is the exterior data plate normally near the tail required for DEA

gliders are exempt

BT

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:55:16 -0700, BTIZ wrote:


He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Tell you what. Next time you see a FSDO inspector ask him what would
happen to a FSDO inspector who kept a medical or pilot certificate
during a ramp check against the pilots wishes. My local FSDO guys just
shudder at what would happen to that guy. They told me to just fly
anyways and to expect a FedEx'ed package with your stuff the next day as
well as a personal call of apology from the FSDO chief apologizing
profusely for his agents gross misconduct.

Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I haven't heard about this. How does a data plate help the DEA?

The argument goes that it makes it easy for them to check the ID of the plane without
having to enter the plane and it's more difficult to falsify than the painted
N-numbers.

And I have some ocean-front property in Valdosta I'd like to show you, too.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I haven't heard about this. How does a data plate help the DEA?

The argument goes that it makes it easy for them to check the ID of the
plane without
having to enter the plane and it's more difficult to falsify than the
painted
N-numbers.


Aha. Pretty much as I figured.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:FWIdc.2668$rg5.26879@attbi_s52...



On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:55:16 -0700, BTIZ wrote:


He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see
them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if
required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Tell you what. Next time you see a FSDO inspector ask him what would
happen to a FSDO inspector who kept a medical or pilot certificate
during a ramp check against the pilots wishes. My local FSDO guys just
shudder at what would happen to that guy. They told me to just fly
anyways and to expect a FedEx'ed package with your stuff the next day as
well as a personal call of apology from the FSDO chief apologizing
profusely for his agents gross misconduct.

Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane? It is well known that the FAA will
back its own no matter how wrong the action might have been i.e.. the
Bainbridge absurdity.

Blitz,
It seems just a tad bit arrogant and rather immature to bust the Fed's balls
just because he is doing his job. If you have nothing to hide then why
build up ill will by playing "who has the biggest pecker" with the FAA? One
day that attitude might just bite you in the ass when he finds some minor
problem that might be overlooked or casually mentioned to you, but do to
getting some "attitude" from you will now result in a violation. As my dad
always said, "You will catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinager."

Seth

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Pvmdc.364$Va4.47@fed1read01...
Don't get me wrong, It's nice to be friendly and polite with the local FAA
on a "ramp check", but don't get carried away.

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go to,
can
we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft paperwork
reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are required.
But
they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for charts, what ever. He
can look in the airplane by looking through the window. He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.

You lucked out.

BT
"Doug Vetter" wrote in message
et...
Hi all,

Just figured I'd relate an experience I had today -- I was ramp checked
at Wilkes Barre, PA, for the second time in 15 years of flying.

After shooting a nice "high speed" ILS to a full stop landing, I pulled
up to Tech Aviation. Not 10 seconds after I hopped out and told the
line crew to top the tanks, an unassuming-looking guy walked up and
flipped out an id that logo I'd seen somewhere before... He kindly
introduced himself, "Hi, I'm name, an inspector from the FAA" and just
said that he wanted to perform a ramp check.

I said "sure" and asked him what he wanted to see. He said "eh, just
the usual stuff, certificate, medical, aircraft documentation". While I
was busy pulling my credentials out of my flight bag he asked where I
was based. As I turned around to hand him my certificates, I caught him
writing the N number and model of the airplane in a notebook.

When he saw my CFI certificate, he just remarked "oh, you're a CFI,
eh?". "Yup" I said. I don't know if it was just me, but after that he
seemed a bit more friendly and casual. Perhaps having a CFI certificate
is a lot like having a PBA card when pulled over for speeding... :-)

He then said, "Do you have the weight and balance information for the
airplane?" I said, "sure", and grabbed the "Airplane Flight Manual"
binder I developed for the airplane, which, among other things, includes
all of the recent flight records, VOT checks, weight and balance
worksheets, a copy of the POH (this airplane doesn't have an approved
flight manual), squawk listing, and even copies of airframe / powerplant
/ prop logbook pages necessary to prove everything is in license.

When the inspector saw the binder he then asked "Is this a school or a
club airplane?" I said "No, why do you ask?" He replied that he often
sees this kind of binder in a club or school airplane, but he "couldn't
remember" when he last saw a private airplane with one. "Very nice", he
concluded.

At that point, he glanced at the weight and balance data for a couple
seconds and said, "okay that's looks good" He then commented on how
nice the airplane looked. "This airplane is in great shape...pretty
obvious you take care of it". I jokingly replied "well, my partner and
I are really particular about the airplane...so much so that we're
putting my mechanic's kids through college!" He laughed, reached out
his hand to shake mine, and said "thanks for your time, and good luck
with it!". And that was about it.

The interesting twist is I had brought the binder home last weekend so I
could make some changes to it, and I walked out of the house this
morning without it. Halfway down the driveway, I realized my error. I
thought to myself "Well, I don't really *need* it, but I better grab
it". Glad I did. If I hadn't, I would not have been able to show the
weight and balance information and the day would not have ended so well.

Morals? Make sure the airplane you fly has all of the necessary
paperwork in good order EVERY time you fly, and make sure you bring your
certificate(s) and medical with you. You NEVER know when or where
you'll be ramp checked!

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...
Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane?

No. His medical was revoked on an emergency basis, but that has nothing to
do with the question of whether handing your paperwork over to an inspector
will affect your certificate status one way or the other.

If the FAA wants to suspend or revoke your privileges, whether or not you
have your certificates in hand don't matter. Your privileges get suspended
or revoked, and you keeping your papers won't change that. Conversely, if
an inspector takes your certificates from you, and claims that you
voluntarily surrendered them, refusing to give them back, that does not mean
that you cannot fly. It just means that inspector will get into trouble
with his supervisors.

The rules regarding what constitutes voluntary surrender are very clear, and
nothing that happens during a ramp check could result in qualifying as
voluntary surrender (unless you somehow accidently write a letter to the FAA
during the ramp check...a bizarre situation to ponder, IMHO).

Pete

There is no legal requirement for you to carry VFR charts period -- just a
requirement that you obtain all necessary information before the flight.

I've been told (never been ramp-checked myself) that the FAA guy can
interpret this to mean that your chart must be current.

(That is, you don't have to carry a chart, but you may not carry a
chart that is out of date.)

And it would seem that, if you irritated the inspector by say refusing
to let go of your pilot certificate, he could declare on the spot
that, obviously, "all necessary information" includes a chart!

Personally, I would rather not take the chance.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

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