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Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.



 
 
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  #41  
Old June 29th 18, 03:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and was
told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer" could
perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though I've
never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant for club,
not private, ships.

In the US it's the pilot's responsibility to ensure that his ship is
airworthy.Â* During and after rigging the pilot determines the safe
condition of the ship which includes visual inspection, verification
that all controls are hooked up, and a positive control check. Since I
keep my ship in my own hangar where nobody has access to it and no
vehicles can bump into it, my preflight, while thorough, would appear
almost casual to the uninformed viewer.

I would suspect the same with the accident ship, a last quick look
before climbing in, but a much closer look before coming to the launch
position.Â* From what we've read here, I don't believe there was a
mechanical fault with the ship.

My deepest condolences to friends and family of the unfortunate pilot.

On 6/28/2018 8:40 PM, Charlie Quebec wrote:
My deepest condolences to the pilot and his friends.
I do have a question, does the video show a normal US preflight procedure? It seemed very casual to me.


--
Dan, 5J
  #42  
Old June 29th 18, 04:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:33:55 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and was
told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer" could
perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though I've
never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant for club,
not private, ships.

This applies to all gliders in BGA clubs. All have DI books which are
signed every day the glider is flown to show that known deferrable faults
have been fixed or deferred and visual inspection and positive control
checks have been done and the glider is passed as serviceable. My Libelle
is currently pegged down in its covers and will still get the same
preflight checks before its next flight that it got when it was rigged
yesterday.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #43  
Old June 29th 18, 06:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

Is a British Airways first officer allowed to preflight his own 777 carrying 300 passengers or does that require a higher level signature?
  #44  
Old June 29th 18, 08:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
James Thomson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

At 14:33 29 June 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:
Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and

was
told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer" could
perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though I've
never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant for

club,
not private, ships.

In the US it's the pilot's responsibility to ensure that his ship is
airworthy.Â* During and after rigging the pilot determines the safe
condition of the ship which includes visual inspection, verification
that all controls are hooked up, and a positive control check. Since I
keep my ship in my own hangar where nobody has access to it and no
vehicles can bump into it, my preflight, while thorough, would appear
almost casual to the uninformed viewer.

I would suspect the same with the accident ship, a last quick look
before climbing in, but a much closer look before coming to the launch
position.Â* From what we've read here, I don't believe there was a
mechanical fault with the ship.

My deepest condolences to friends and family of the unfortunate pilot.

On 6/28/2018 8:40 PM, Charlie Quebec wrote:
My deepest condolences to the pilot and his friends.
I do have a question, does the video show a normal US preflight

procedure? It seemed very casual to me.


The BGA requirement is
"Inspection Before Flight. All gliders operated from BGA club sites shall
be inspected before flying on each day. Club gliders shall be inspected by

club approved persons who must sign that the glider is serviceable
before it is flown on that day."

The inspection is normally conducted by a qualified pilot - there is no
special requirement for an engineer. The record of the work is the Daily

Inspection (DI) book carried in the glider.


  #45  
Old June 29th 18, 08:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 10:27:45 -0700, victoriallake08 wrote:

Is a British Airways first officer allowed to preflight his own 777
carrying 300 passengers or does that require a higher level signature?


Pass - I was talking about BGA gliders only - and you must be a solo
pilot to preflight any BGA glider (club or private).

BGA gliders are a distinct subset of CAA registered UK aircraft.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #46  
Old June 29th 18, 09:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 961
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 8:41:51 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:33:55 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and was
told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer" could
perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though I've
never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant for club,
not private, ships.

This applies to all gliders in BGA clubs. All have DI books which are
signed every day the glider is flown to show that known deferrable faults
have been fixed or deferred and visual inspection and positive control
checks have been done and the glider is passed as serviceable. My Libelle
is currently pegged down in its covers and will still get the same
preflight checks before its next flight that it got when it was rigged
yesterday.


Only an engineer can preflight a BGA glider? Seriously?

In New Zealand it is normal practice for any solo-rated pilot to perform the DI and sign the DI book.

  #47  
Old June 29th 18, 09:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 699
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:40:41 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 8:41:51 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:33:55 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and
was told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer"
could perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though
I've never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant
for club,
not private, ships.

This applies to all gliders in BGA clubs. All have DI books which are
signed every day the glider is flown to show that known deferrable
faults have been fixed or deferred and visual inspection and positive
control checks have been done and the glider is passed as serviceable.
My Libelle is currently pegged down in its covers and will still get
the same preflight checks before its next flight that it got when it
was rigged yesterday.


Only an engineer can preflight a BGA glider? Seriously?

I was answering the last line of Dan's comment. All BGA gliders carry a DI
book which has an entry for each day a glider was flown that records the
results of inspection and PCCs and the signature of the person doing it.
Any solo pilot can carry out the DI.

In New Zealand it is normal practice for any solo-rated pilot to perform
the DI and sign the DI book.

In general there's a very close correspondance between BGA practised and
those in NZ, though the BGA's approach has gotten a little more
bureaucratic since EASA was invented. Read that as more paper rather than
anything else and, speaking as a private owner, I think the main changes
have been to annual inspections and workshop practises rather than day to
day operations.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org
  #48  
Old June 29th 18, 10:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,099
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 2:53:12 PM UTC-6, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 13:40:41 -0700, Bruce Hoult wrote:

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 8:41:51 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:33:55 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and
was told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer"
could perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though
I've never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant
for club,
not private, ships.

This applies to all gliders in BGA clubs. All have DI books which are
signed every day the glider is flown to show that known deferrable
faults have been fixed or deferred and visual inspection and positive
control checks have been done and the glider is passed as serviceable.
My Libelle is currently pegged down in its covers and will still get
the same preflight checks before its next flight that it got when it
was rigged yesterday.


Only an engineer can preflight a BGA glider? Seriously?

I was answering the last line of Dan's comment. All BGA gliders carry a DI
book which has an entry for each day a glider was flown that records the
results of inspection and PCCs and the signature of the person doing it.
Any solo pilot can carry out the DI.

In New Zealand it is normal practice for any solo-rated pilot to perform
the DI and sign the DI book.

In general there's a very close correspondance between BGA practised and
those in NZ, though the BGA's approach has gotten a little more
bureaucratic since EASA was invented. Read that as more paper rather than
anything else and, speaking as a private owner, I think the main changes
have been to annual inspections and workshop practises rather than day to
day operations.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org


I found the DI Book to quit a good idea and I still have one in the pocket of my Kestrel. FWIW, I did find an unsecured castellated nut on a primary flight control on the club's K-7 during one morning pre-flight (1978). As I had previously pre-flighted the K-7, it was always a bit of a mystery to me how it came to be missing. I've always presumed someone had done an annual and missed replacing it. Otherwise, only minor notes made in the books of the various BGA reg gliders I've flown.

Frank Whiteley
  #49  
Old June 29th 18, 10:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 377
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

BGA rules nowadays require the DI to be carried out by a pilot who has bronze or above. The requirement was upgraded from any solo pilot a few years ago.
  #50  
Old June 29th 18, 10:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

But can you inspect your own glider and sign it off or must some
appointed person do it?

In the US many years ago the FAA required a logbook entry with each
assembly of a glider.Â* The Soaring Society convinced the FAA that it was
routine to assemble and dismantle gliders before and after flight.Â*
Thankfully the requirement was removed.

On 6/29/2018 9:41 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:33:55 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and was
told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer" could
perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though I've
never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant for club,
not private, ships.

This applies to all gliders in BGA clubs. All have DI books which are
signed every day the glider is flown to show that known deferrable faults
have been fixed or deferred and visual inspection and positive control
checks have been done and the glider is passed as serviceable. My Libelle
is currently pegged down in its covers and will still get the same
preflight checks before its next flight that it got when it was rigged
yesterday.



--
Dan, 5J
 




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