Minooka Accident?

That's very interesting... where can one find this 'History'?


On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 6:33:59 PM UTC-4, FZ wrote:
There is a history of collapsing of the back rest in SZD-55.
Mine was equipped by the previous owner with a custom made wood inserts, supposedly preventing of such events. Collapsing of the back rest would certainly cause pilot to fall back and sudden back pull on the stick.
Following stall would be consistent with this scenario.

If my back support was being reinforced with wooden blocks I would assume something was broken and it would not be flown until fixed!

Regards,

Bob 7U

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 7:40:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
That's very interesting... where can one find this 'History'?


On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 6:33:59 PM UTC-4, FZ wrote:
There is a history of collapsing of the back rest in SZD-55.
Mine was equipped by the previous owner with a custom made wood inserts, supposedly preventing of such events. Collapsing of the back rest would certainly cause pilot to fall back and sudden back pull on the stick.
Following stall would be consistent with this scenario.

If my back support was being reinforced with wooden blocks I would assume something was broken and it would not be flown until fixed!

Regards,

Bob 7U

We are not talking here of some broken parts or wooden blocks.
The back-rest is adjustable by moving of two rails into one of few positions/cutouts/notches. Fixed pins go into notches and should stay there by the virtue of two springs pulling the rails downward. Sit stays put.
Given some unusual movement of pilot ( see dropped wing twice, some action inside a cockpit) it may happen that the springs are not pulling the rail strong enough to keep the rail in the selected position.
To prevent this from happening you will insert into the rails two long pieces of plastic or wood of certain shape. It positively prevent the movement of rails and back-rest.
I don't know if this is a factory part or some custom made improvement. SZD manual do not say anything on sit adjustment. It would be a good idea to ask the manufacturer.

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 5:29:50 PM UTC-4, FZ wrote:
On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 7:40:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
That's very interesting... where can one find this 'History'?


On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 6:33:59 PM UTC-4, FZ wrote:
There is a history of collapsing of the back rest in SZD-55.
Mine was equipped by the previous owner with a custom made wood inserts, supposedly preventing of such events. Collapsing of the back rest would certainly cause pilot to fall back and sudden back pull on the stick.
Following stall would be consistent with this scenario.

If my back support was being reinforced with wooden blocks I would assume something was broken and it would not be flown until fixed!

Regards,

Bob 7U

We are not talking here of some broken parts or wooden blocks.
The back-rest is adjustable by moving of two rails into one of few positions/cutouts/notches. Fixed pins go into notches and should stay there by the virtue of two springs pulling the rails downward. Sit stays put.
Given some unusual movement of pilot ( see dropped wing twice, some action inside a cockpit) it may happen that the springs are not pulling the rail strong enough to keep the rail in the selected position.
To prevent this from happening you will insert into the rails two long pieces of plastic or wood of certain shape. It positively prevent the movement of rails and back-rest.
I don't know if this is a factory part or some custom made improvement. SZD manual do not say anything on sit adjustment. It would be a good idea to ask the manufacturer.

Someone should check the wreck if there is anything there to help jamming adjustment of the back rest.
Ship was designed for too easy adjustment,maybe for club fliers.
I lock it by 2 1 foot long 1/4 inch thick plexiglass sticks with springs on the ends for locking on the end of tracks.
It looks like a factory made.
Other point of interest is the clip holding down ruder.
I found this piece many times missing or badly corroded,by pilots urine.
Ryszard Krolikowski RW

Yes, for sure, someone in the Chicago club should take a look at the wreckage to see if the seat back is broken. If it is, then contact the investigators (NTSB & FAA) and tell them what was found. I was at the field when a G-103 flew into the cliff, short of the runway. All the Federalli was interested in was checking AD's and to see if the ship was in annual. Glider pilots found the cause which was spoiler opened too far because of a worn stop, resulting in spoiler plate jammed on top of wing skin. Also, fill out a malfunction or defect report with your findings and send it to your local Feds and NTSB.
JJ

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:42:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Yes, for sure, someone in the Chicago club should take a look at the wreckage to see if the seat back is broken. If it is, then contact the investigators (NTSB & FAA) and tell them what was found. I was at the field when a G-103 flew into the cliff, short of the runway. All the Federalli was interested in was checking AD's and to see if the ship was in annual. Glider pilots found the cause which was spoiler opened too far because of a worn stop, resulting in spoiler plate jammed on top of wing skin. Also, fill out a malfunction or defect report with your findings and send it to your local Feds and NTSB.
JJ

Absolutely. We should not rely on NTSB to find the root cause of accidents for us and we should not assume that they're not idiots. All they care about is filling the blanks in their accident report forms. The only useful accident reports I've seen were those which received good information either from the pilot involved, or other pilots.
If it will be found that the backrest was the likely cause, this will be yet another case of accident which could have been avoided if the pilot knew about an issue. There should have been an AD. I cant count how many fatalities could have been avoided if the pilots were aware of potential issues with their gliders. So far I found RAS to be the most reliable source of such knowledge. There should be a database for such things.

According to NTSB, this was the first glider fatality this year. Unfortunately, there was another one near Minden the following day:
http://mynews4.com/news/local/glider...-tahoe-airport

Ramy

At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20

There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

At 06:17 18 August 2016, Eric Munk wrote:
At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20

There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

The database is in the BGA Compendium, easily accessible via this link:

https://members.gliding.co.uk/airwor...airworthiness-
directives/

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 3:08:04 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:42:41 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Yes, for sure, someone in the Chicago club should take a look at the wreckage to see if the seat back is broken. If it is, then contact the investigators (NTSB & FAA) and tell them what was found. I was at the field when a G-103 flew into the cliff, short of the runway. All the Federalli was interested in was checking AD's and to see if the ship was in annual. Glider pilots found the cause which was spoiler opened too far because of a worn stop, resulting in spoiler plate jammed on top of wing skin. Also, fill out a malfunction or defect report with your findings and send it to your local Feds and NTSB.
JJ

Absolutely. We should not rely on NTSB to find the root cause of accidents for us and we should not assume that they're not idiots. All they care about is filling the blanks in their accident report forms. The only useful accident reports I've seen were those which received good information either from the pilot involved, or other pilots.
If it will be found that the backrest was the likely cause, this will be yet another case of accident which could have been avoided if the pilot knew about an issue. There should have been an AD. I cant count how many fatalities could have been avoided if the pilots were aware of potential issues with their gliders. So far I found RAS to be the most reliable source of such knowledge. There should be a database for such things.

According to NTSB, this was the first glider fatality this year. Unfortunately, there was another one near Minden the following day:
http://mynews4.com/news/local/glider...-tahoe-airport

Ramy

It would take some care to determine if the seat moved before the accident, or as a result of the accident. Obviously if it is in the "correct" position, one could probably remove as an issue.
Many tow releases are hard to get to, especially in emergencies or maybe a slipped seat. For a number of ships with low center releases, a loop of parachute cord connected to the release, and laid over the left thigh during launch, can be a meaningful safety improvement.
Lastly- Emergency plan. Ya gotta have one. Right at the top of that plan list is "If something starts to go wrong- I will released and tray again". That includes a wing dropping and hitting the ground in many(most?) cases.
FWIW
UH

How do you find information for a particular type of glider? Is there
some way to cross reference from the TN numbers?

On 8/19/2016 3:17 AM, James Thomson wrote:
At 06:17 18 August 2016, Eric Munk wrote:
At 19:08 17 August 2016, Ramy wrote:
There should be a database for such things.=20
There is. https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/tns/

The database is in the BGA Compendium, easily accessible via this link:

https://members.gliding.co.uk/airwor...airworthiness-
directives/


--
Dan, 5J

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:56:03 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

How do you find information for a particular type of glider? Is there
some way to cross reference from the TN numbers?

Click the 'Search Airworthiness Library' on the lower right of that page
and enter a word or phrase on the search page that brings up. "SZD55"
brings up two references (the BGA data sheet and a German TN page).



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |