Wishing for clickable US score sheet

I suppose that if I'd suggested hamburgers for lunch, there'd be RAS posts here expressing what a waste it would be to suggest someone cook the meat when it is just as nutritious eaten raw.

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 5:00:26 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
I suppose that if I'd suggested hamburgers for lunch, there'd be RAS posts here expressing what a waste it would be to suggest someone cook the meat when it is just as nutritious eaten raw.

Or someone will ask why you are eating beef. :-)

Yes, WH, you can get all the files just that quickly. Now go and just as quickly try and get Tony, Tom, and Mark's files from day 3. Takes more than a bit longer, doesn't it? That is what Steve has asked for. Rather than just listing the file name on the scoresheet, make that file name on the scoresheet a link to the file, just like it is on soaringspot. He has politely suggested something for the "improvements" list.

Agree, Hank. It is doing what it had been asked to do. And now, a qualified person can have a look and see what level of effort would be involved in taking it to this next level. It may be a little and it may be a lot. Never know if you don't ask. I would like to see it, as I do tend to go look at my flights compared to others above me on the scoresheet. And even after making my "de-coder sheet", I find that pilots don't always turn in files from the same logger each day, so when you can't find the file you are looking for, you have to go digging again.

The other Steve

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 11:00:27 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
The score sheet presently has a column identifying only the name of the IGC file for each pilot. That's a good thing, but it's a real pain to then go find and retrieve the file elsewhere.

It would be really cool if we could just click the IGC file name to immediately download it for viewing.

Since I'm free to wish as I please, I will also wish for another column on the scoresheet with an IGC file that has been pruned to the on-course time such that the pre-start and post-finish data is removed from the log. That would really be nice for checking a pilot's racing statistics and make flight comparisons easy. So two IGC files for each flight please: one comprises the as-submitted flight log and the other is a generated file slightly massaged for improved viewing and analysis.

I'm sure somebody here knows how to do this stuff. Thanks in advance if you can do this. It would help everybody improve their flying.

UH clearly believes that what exists is "good enough" and that the ingrates should be satisfied. The Winscore-based scoring environment does do something more or less like what was intended in the horse and buggy days when there was no internet and the alternatives were few.

UH asserts that there are only a few folks who are interested in looking at files, and getting them the next day is just fine.

Having extensive experience with three scoring systems (Winscore, SeeYou and SGP) along with OLC what the US system provides is doesn't even come close to providing what the current standard of practice is.

At the contests I have officiated at (CD or Scorer), I have endeavored to use alternate and extraordinary means to provide posted scores within minutes of log submission, and to also provide simultaneous availability of logs via Google Drive (albeit not grouped by class .

My own opinion is that the immediacy of scores, logs and of uesable real-time tracking makes competing (even though it's not racing) much more interesting to both competitors and others.

QT

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 1:31:06 PM UTC-7, wrote:
FWIW
The current system is so easy and quick - I doubt the effort to separate the files would/should/could ever happen.

To be sure - I just checked - it took less than 5 seconds to down load the entire Sports Class nationals files - 40 gliders x 4 days - that's allot of tracks for little investment.

if it takes longer than you are doing something wrong - you just right click on the "Flight Logs" in the results and save the target to your desktop - you get them all fast and easy!!

WH

Say I'm flying a 3 class contest consisting of 65 gliders and I'd like to retrieve the top 10 scores in my class. It takes more than 5 seconds....

Well stated John...I wholehearted agree.

Winscore was originally conceived as a "print on paper" scoring calculator to serve only those present at a soaring contest. This it does well and thanks to Guy Byars who many years ago volunteered to developed it and has kept it updated to reflect current SSA rules.

R.A.S.'ers should not make the mistake of expecting Winscore to provide something it was never designed or intended to provide.


UH clearly believes that what exists is "good enough" and that the ingrates should be satisfied. The Winscore-based scoring environment does do something more or less like what was intended in the horse and buggy days when there was no internet and the alternatives were few.

UH asserts that there are only a few folks who are interested in looking at files, and getting them the next day is just fine.

Having extensive experience with three scoring systems (Winscore, SeeYou and SGP) along with OLC what the US system provides is doesn't even come close to providing what the current standard of practice is.

At the contests I have officiated at (CD or Scorer), I have endeavored to use alternate and extraordinary means to provide posted scores within minutes of log submission, and to also provide simultaneous availability of logs via Google Drive (albeit not grouped by class .

My own opinion is that the immediacy of scores, logs and of uesable real-time tracking makes competing (even though it's not racing) much more interesting to both competitors and others.

QT

Soaring Spot is just one example of US isolation. The SSA actively seems to do everything possible to isolate US Soaring from the world soaring community. US rules and contests are unique and only Canada (with its own major modifications) uses the US system (with some reluctance I sense). I'm not sure if that is going to continue...

As a US citizen, we have no choice other than to follow these SSA policies. It is very frustrating as they also protect the tangent they have created fairly aggressively from a political perspective. Disgust with FAI rules dominate the news articles and many discussions for example. It basically goes like this: The FAI/IGC rules are bad. The tasking is bad. Etc, etc. How would most Americans really know? They'll never experience it.

Today and for years, there is very little in common between SSA contests and FAI. All of the systems are different. Zero commonality. Some argue that doesn't matter. Contests are still about climbing better and running better. Sure, but that is a massive oversimplification. We have completely different rules in the USA (with highly complex scoring formulas designed to "make soaring...fair," unique scoring systems, our own tasks (zero and one turn mats, long mats 30-mile radius TAT's and almost no assigned tasks), our own handicaps, etc, etc, etc. Those driving this policy are dug in like ticks and believe the USA's soaring tangent is noble and necessary. In my opinion, the SSA's tangent strongly isolates the US soaring community from the worldwide soaring community. In several very important ways.

US pilots are not included in FAI rankings. No, no. We have the SSA pilot rankings. Completely separate. Very rarely are US contest results included in the FAI rankings and any US pilot on the list has a highly inaccurate ranking.

Our contests are only on our (fairly poor, stale, very low traffic) US websites and social media sites, greatly handicapping and limiting the audience and interest. I would love to see the statistics.

The rest of the world very likely does not care at all about the US websites. I doubt they check them very often. If at all...

All of this effort to create a unique and "better" system simply isolates the US (and Canada).

Just my 2 cents...

Spot on QT.

The "ostrich approach" isn't going to solve the issue.


UH clearly believes that what exists is "good enough" and that the ingrates should be satisfied. The Winscore-based scoring environment does do something more or less like what was intended in the horse and buggy days when there was no internet and the alternatives were few.

UH asserts that there are only a few folks who are interested in looking at files, and getting them the next day is just fine.

Having extensive experience with three scoring systems (Winscore, SeeYou and SGP) along with OLC what the US system provides is doesn't even come close to providing what the current standard of practice is.

At the contests I have officiated at (CD or Scorer), I have endeavored to use alternate and extraordinary means to provide posted scores within minutes of log submission, and to also provide simultaneous availability of logs via Google Drive (albeit not grouped by class .

My own opinion is that the immediacy of scores, logs and of uesable real-time tracking makes competing (even though it's not racing) much more interesting to both competitors and others.

QT

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 6:49:55 PM UTC-4, John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 11:00:27 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
The score sheet presently has a column identifying only the name of the IGC file for each pilot. That's a good thing, but it's a real pain to then go find and retrieve the file elsewhere.

It would be really cool if we could just click the IGC file name to immediately download it for viewing.

Since I'm free to wish as I please, I will also wish for another column on the scoresheet with an IGC file that has been pruned to the on-course time such that the pre-start and post-finish data is removed from the log. That would really be nice for checking a pilot's racing statistics and make flight comparisons easy. So two IGC files for each flight please: one comprises the as-submitted flight log and the other is a generated file slightly massaged for improved viewing and analysis.

I'm sure somebody here knows how to do this stuff. Thanks in advance if you can do this. It would help everybody improve their flying.

UH clearly believes that what exists is "good enough" and that the ingrates should be satisfied. The Winscore-based scoring environment does do something more or less like what was intended in the horse and buggy days when there was no internet and the alternatives were few.

UH asserts that there are only a few folks who are interested in looking at files, and getting them the next day is just fine.

Having extensive experience with three scoring systems (Winscore, SeeYou and SGP) along with OLC what the US system provides is doesn't even come close to providing what the current standard of practice is.

At the contests I have officiated at (CD or Scorer), I have endeavored to use alternate and extraordinary means to provide posted scores within minutes of log submission, and to also provide simultaneous availability of logs via Google Drive (albeit not grouped by class .

My own opinion is that the immediacy of scores, logs and of uesable real-time tracking makes competing (even though it's not racing) much more interesting to both competitors and others.

QT

UH did not make any assertion that the current system is "good enough". That remains to be seen. If a meaningful number of people want a much more automated system, the work to create it would be justified.
Please read what I wrote.
Having made that determination it then becomes "only" an issue of getting a qualified volunteer to do the work required.
This might be an interesting general topic for our Fall rules poll.
UH

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 11:00:27 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
The score sheet presently has a column identifying only the name of the IGC file for each pilot. That's a good thing, but it's a real pain to then go find and retrieve the file elsewhere.

It would be really cool if we could just click the IGC file name to immediately download it for viewing.

Since I'm free to wish as I please, I will also wish for another column on the scoresheet with an IGC file that has been pruned to the on-course time such that the pre-start and post-finish data is removed from the log. That would really be nice for checking a pilot's racing statistics and make flight comparisons easy. So two IGC files for each flight please: one comprises the as-submitted flight log and the other is a generated file slightly massaged for improved viewing and analysis.

I'm sure somebody here knows how to do this stuff. Thanks in advance if you can do this. It would help everybody improve their flying.

"Work to create it"? Wheel already invented. Sufficiently round.