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sunlight readable iphone



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 19th 17, 12:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default sunlight readable iphone

I'll stack my ClearNav II display or my Dynon D10a against your iPhone
any day of the week.Â* Or are we only talking phone displays?

On 9/18/2017 11:17 AM, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 5:43:50 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
All smartphones with glossy display are just useless mirrors in cockpit, no matter what the nits are. Just look at avionics industry, all displays have non-reflective matte surface, for a reason.

glossy displays. It isn't that simple. My iPhone 6 plus looks quite glossy when turned off, but has no more reflection problems than the matt faced Oudie. You can add a matt overlay onto the phone, but it makes no difference (makes it worse, actually). These phones have very fancy coatings, the latest ones absorb something like 95% of the incident light. The technology in an iPhone far exceeds anything in the aircraft industry. In fact Apple buys more aluminum than the entire aircraft industry. When ramping up the iPhone 7 they were said to be shipping the equivalent weight of aluminum in a B747 every 23 hours in iPhone housings.

I have flown a number of flights with the Oudie/V2/Avier and the iPhone 6 plus side by side on the panel, both running. Most of the time the iPhone is as good or better. The only time the Oudie clearly wins is when you are pointed into the sun, your iris closes down, you are wearing dark glasses. Then the slightly brighter Oudie wins. An iPhone 6 Plus tests at around 550 nits. The Oudie is claimed to be 1000. At sun angles when reflections are a problem, they are equally a problem on both.

I'm looking forward to buying an iPhone X when they come out.


--
Dan, 5J
  #32  
Old September 19th 17, 02:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 546
Default sunlight readable iphone

On 09/18/2017 02:54 PM, wrote:
Sorry to hear the IOIO does not prevent USB glitches. And I thought it was the OTG Y-cable method that was to blame. But does the IOIO actually need the main device to run in OTG mode (i.e., being the USB host)?


I believe the Nook does need to run as Host, but it does receive power
over the bus for charging. So it's a true OTG device.

I set up a Kobo Mini for a friend with a Y cable, AFAIK it's been solid.
I think the flakiness is either in the Nook USB chip or the driver for
it. On rare occasions, the Nook has booted in a bad state such that
nothing short of rebooting was able to clear the problem.

-Dave





If you like an older version of Tophat better, you can still use it. I keep the old .apk files just in case. Of course you do then give up some improvements done in the more recent versions.


On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 6:41:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 09/15/2017 02:40 PM, moshe wrote:
A third way is via an "IOIO box" but that seems overkill to me.


Compared to buying a $1000 phone to try to get enough brightness, seems
like a terribly minimalist solution to me. I'm using IOIO-OTG and have
a secondary input wired to give a big PF display. Worked great for a
while, then TopHat dropped the capability out of current releases for
some reason. Maybe XCSoar still has it, but never liked their UI.

Reliability of the system is marginal, usually takes a couple
unplug/replug cycles of the usb to keep things running on a long flight.

-Dave



  #33  
Old September 19th 17, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Posts: 242
Default sunlight readable iphone

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 6:07:13 PM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
On 09/18/2017 02:54 PM, wrote:
Sorry to hear the IOIO does not prevent USB glitches. And I thought it was the OTG Y-cable method that was to blame. But does the IOIO actually need the main device to run in OTG mode (i.e., being the USB host)?


I believe the Nook does need to run as Host, but it does receive power
over the bus for charging. So it's a true OTG device.

I set up a Kobo Mini for a friend with a Y cable, AFAIK it's been solid.
I think the flakiness is either in the Nook USB chip or the driver for
it. On rare occasions, the Nook has booted in a bad state such that
nothing short of rebooting was able to clear the problem.

-Dave





If you like an older version of Tophat better, you can still use it. I keep the old .apk files just in case. Of course you do then give up some improvements done in the more recent versions.


On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 6:41:12 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 09/15/2017 02:40 PM, moshe wrote:
A third way is via an "IOIO box" but that seems overkill to me.

Compared to buying a $1000 phone to try to get enough brightness, seems
like a terribly minimalist solution to me. I'm using IOIO-OTG and have
a secondary input wired to give a big PF display. Worked great for a
while, then TopHat dropped the capability out of current releases for
some reason. Maybe XCSoar still has it, but never liked their UI.

Reliability of the system is marginal, usually takes a couple
unplug/replug cycles of the usb to keep things running on a long flight.

-Dave


Ditto with Nook- did not like it.
Top Hat runs solid with the Kobo Mini and I even like it better on the Kobo Glo
  #34  
Old September 19th 17, 04:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default sunlight readable iphone

jfitch wrote on 9/18/2017 10:17 AM:

I'm looking forward to buying an iPhone X when they come out.

How about the iPhone 8? Is it any brighter than a 6 or 7?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #35  
Old September 19th 17, 05:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 624
Default sunlight readable iphone

Has Samsung, Apple, Dell, Kobo or Vertica ever exhibited at Aero or the SSA convention? It seems a lot of effort goes into avoiding the support of manufacturers of glider instruments.
Jim
  #36  
Old September 19th 17, 05:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default sunlight readable iphone

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 4:04:45 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
I'll stack my ClearNav II display or my Dynon D10a against your iPhone
any day of the week.Â* Or are we only talking phone displays?

On 9/18/2017 11:17 AM, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 5:43:50 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
All smartphones with glossy display are just useless mirrors in cockpit, no matter what the nits are. Just look at avionics industry, all displays have non-reflective matte surface, for a reason.

glossy displays. It isn't that simple. My iPhone 6 plus looks quite glossy when turned off, but has no more reflection problems than the matt faced Oudie. You can add a matt overlay onto the phone, but it makes no difference (makes it worse, actually). These phones have very fancy coatings, the latest ones absorb something like 95% of the incident light. The technology in an iPhone far exceeds anything in the aircraft industry. In fact Apple buys more aluminum than the entire aircraft industry. When ramping up the iPhone 7 they were said to be shipping the equivalent weight of aluminum in a B747 every 23 hours in iPhone housings.

I have flown a number of flights with the Oudie/V2/Avier and the iPhone 6 plus side by side on the panel, both running. Most of the time the iPhone is as good or better. The only time the Oudie clearly wins is when you are pointed into the sun, your iris closes down, you are wearing dark glasses.. Then the slightly brighter Oudie wins. An iPhone 6 Plus tests at around 550 nits. The Oudie is claimed to be 1000. At sun angles when reflections are a problem, they are equally a problem on both.

I'm looking forward to buying an iPhone X when they come out.


--
Dan, 5J


The problem with the Clear Nav and Dynon displays is that they run exclusively ClearNav and Dynon software. If you are happy with that, and continue to be happy where ever they lead you at whatever price, then you a "s*****g in tall cotton" as they say down south. If you want a non-proprietary solution with the ability to pick the software you want to run and upgrade whenever you chose, then consumer electronics based hardware is the way to go. Neither is Right - just Different. The OP started the thread talking about iPhones. The UI on iPhone apps is miles and decades ahead, if you are sensitive to that sort of thing.
  #37  
Old September 19th 17, 05:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default sunlight readable iphone

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 8:32:19 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
jfitch wrote on 9/18/2017 10:17 AM:

I'm looking forward to buying an iPhone X when they come out.

How about the iPhone 8? Is it any brighter than a 6 or 7?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf


The iPhone 8 has the same LCD display of the 7, so it will be the same brightness. The hope for the iPhone X is that it uses a Samsung OLED display, capable of much higher brightness. It remains to be seen what Apple will do, but it is a competitive market and Samsung phones with the OLED display are brighter in sunlight.
  #38  
Old September 19th 17, 02:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default sunlight readable iphone

JS wrote on 9/18/2017 9:02 PM:
Has Samsung, Apple, Dell, Kobo or Vertica ever exhibited at Aero or the SSA convention? It seems a lot of effort goes into avoiding the support of manufacturers of glider instruments.


For many years, Cambridge, Winpilot, and others used consumer PDAs to run their
flight software. So, using consumer devices began with soaring instrument
companies. Note that The iPhone is the hardware used by Air Avionics - a major
soaring instrument provider - for their iGlide soaring flight software.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #39  
Old September 19th 17, 03:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 242
Default sunlight readable iphone

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 9:02:58 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
Has Samsung, Apple, Dell, Kobo or Vertica ever exhibited at Aero or the SSA convention? It seems a lot of effort goes into avoiding the support of manufacturers of glider instruments.
Jim


Good point Jim. Except if you happen not to care for the Oudie, ClearNav, LX or other pay for and in many cases very expensive devices...these are pretty much the other choice (and in some cases the better choice :-).
  #40  
Old September 19th 17, 05:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default sunlight readable iphone

I doubt consumer electronics will ever be suitable as a cockpit display
under a bubble canopy.Â* They're designed mainly for teen-aged girls who
sit in McDonald's and poke at them with their thumbs all day.Â* Under
those lighting conditions they're perfectly adequate.Â* And who cares
about the UI?Â* Do you want to poke at the display during your entire
flight or simply set it and forget it?

I'm far from expert in display technology, but I have a little bit of
experience having tried and replaced many consumer products before
settling on what I have now.Â* I've tried the Mio (total waste outside a
darkened room), Samsung Galaxy II (wonderful, vibrant colors, but
useless in sunlight), Motorola Moto-X (great phone, but useless
outside), Nexus-7 (same, same), Dell Streak 5 (perfectly readable in
direct sunlight but occasionally has to be shadowed with the hand).Â* The
Streak 5 uses a TFT display which seems to be exactly what's needed for
our use but is prohibitively expensive for the consumer market.Â* Dell
quickly retired the Streak 5, probably for that reason.

If you have the knowledge and skills to roll your own, so to speak, take
a look at something like THIS
http://www.abraxsyscorp.com/Sunlight-Readable-LCD-Display-Monitors.html#n4p.


On 9/18/2017 10:29 PM, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 4:04:45 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
I'll stack my ClearNav II display or my Dynon D10a against your iPhone
any day of the week.Â* Or are we only talking phone displays?

On 9/18/2017 11:17 AM, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 5:43:50 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
All smartphones with glossy display are just useless mirrors in cockpit, no matter what the nits are. Just look at avionics industry, all displays have non-reflective matte surface, for a reason.
glossy displays. It isn't that simple. My iPhone 6 plus looks quite glossy when turned off, but has no more reflection problems than the matt faced Oudie. You can add a matt overlay onto the phone, but it makes no difference (makes it worse, actually). These phones have very fancy coatings, the latest ones absorb something like 95% of the incident light. The technology in an iPhone far exceeds anything in the aircraft industry. In fact Apple buys more aluminum than the entire aircraft industry. When ramping up the iPhone 7 they were said to be shipping the equivalent weight of aluminum in a B747 every 23 hours in iPhone housings.

I have flown a number of flights with the Oudie/V2/Avier and the iPhone 6 plus side by side on the panel, both running. Most of the time the iPhone is as good or better. The only time the Oudie clearly wins is when you are pointed into the sun, your iris closes down, you are wearing dark glasses. Then the slightly brighter Oudie wins. An iPhone 6 Plus tests at around 550 nits. The Oudie is claimed to be 1000. At sun angles when reflections are a problem, they are equally a problem on both.

I'm looking forward to buying an iPhone X when they come out.

--
Dan, 5J

The problem with the Clear Nav and Dynon displays is that they run exclusively ClearNav and Dynon software. If you are happy with that, and continue to be happy where ever they lead you at whatever price, then you a "s*****g in tall cotton" as they say down south. If you want a non-proprietary solution with the ability to pick the software you want to run and upgrade whenever you chose, then consumer electronics based hardware is the way to go. Neither is Right - just Different. The OP started the thread talking about iPhones. The UI on iPhone apps is miles and decades ahead, if you are sensitive to that sort of thing.


--
Dan, 5J

 




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