Some tailwheel questions/comments

This weekend I began my tailwheel endorsement endeavor and had a
lesson in a shiny 160 hp Citabria. It was great fun but the stick and
rudder forces seemed pretty heavy compared to the C-150 I am used to.
The trim was in an unfamiliar position and I didn't get used to using
it enough on the first flight perhaps. However are there tailwheels
that are lighter to handle than the citabria?
The other issue I was wondering about: does the position of the CG
shift when the tail is raised? So is the tailwheel more stable while
taxing at a higher speed on the two front wheels? In other words, I am
wondering if a tailwheel taxing with the tail raised has a similar CG
position to a tricycle gear airplane.

Little Endian wrote:
This weekend I began my tailwheel endorsement endeavor and had a
lesson in a shiny 160 hp Citabria. It was great fun but the stick and
rudder forces seemed pretty heavy compared to the C-150 I am used to.
The trim was in an unfamiliar position and I didn't get used to using
it enough on the first flight perhaps. However are there tailwheels
that are lighter to handle than the citabria?
The other issue I was wondering about: does the position of the CG
shift when the tail is raised? So is the tailwheel more stable while
taxing at a higher speed on the two front wheels? In other words, I am
wondering if a tailwheel taxing with the tail raised has a similar CG
position to a tricycle gear airplane.

Did you ask your instructor these questions?

Little Endian wrote in news:1190700037.145345.27050
@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com:

This weekend I began my tailwheel endorsement endeavor and had a
lesson in a shiny 160 hp Citabria. It was great fun but the stick and
rudder forces seemed pretty heavy compared to the C-150 I am used to.
The trim was in an unfamiliar position and I didn't get used to using
it enough on the first flight perhaps. However are there tailwheels
that are lighter to handle than the citabria?
The other issue I was wondering about: does the position of the CG
shift when the tail is raised? So is the tailwheel more stable while
taxing at a higher speed on the two front wheels? In other words, I am
wondering if a tailwheel taxing with the tail raised has a similar CG
position to a tricycle gear airplane.





Not really, and I'd be surprised if you could taxi a Citabria with the
tailwheel raised anyway. Easy in a cub, though.

The problem with the Citabria is it's a bit too easy for tailwheel
conversion. You'll get the basics, but if you try a cub afterwards you'll
find it significantly more difficult, wheras the other way around would be
a piece of cake. Citabria is a good airplane, but it's not the best
tailwheel trainer for that reason. However, it will certainly do in a
pinch!
The CG doesn't change significantly when the tail is raised, though, to
answer your question, and fast taxiing is something best left to someone
with a LOT of tailwhel time. Taxiing on the mains is something best left to
airshow pilots or guys that can afford to replace props as easily as they
would buy a cup of coffee.
Now ask me how I know this.


Bertie

john smith wrote in news:46f8f93b$0$17147
:

In article . com,
Little Endian wrote:

This weekend I began my tailwheel endorsement endeavor and had a
lesson in a shiny 160 hp Citabria. It was great fun but the stick and
rudder forces seemed pretty heavy compared to the C-150 I am used to.
The trim was in an unfamiliar position and I didn't get used to using
it enough on the first flight perhaps. However are there tailwheels
that are lighter to handle than the citabria?
The other issue I was wondering about: does the position of the CG
shift when the tail is raised? So is the tailwheel more stable while
taxing at a higher speed on the two front wheels? In other words, I am
wondering if a tailwheel taxing with the tail raised has a similar CG
position to a tricycle gear airplane.

One has to wonder if this is a troll.

Might be, but students often get ideas like this in their heads. might be
because they have vivid imaginations, but it's more likely they've been
listening to the guy who's been hanging around the airport, talking about
the day he's going to get that Pitts (just waiting for the right one to
come along, there;s so much junk around) Almost never flies and causes a
ruction in the pattern every time he does and tells tales of his derring do
that he's ripped off from "I learned about flying from that" in the
collection of 1950s Flying magazines he bought at a yard sale.


You know the guy I mean! There's one at every airport and he'd be most
useful as a chock if he had enough brains to lie still.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

Not really, and I'd be surprised if you could taxi a Citabria with the
tailwheel raised anyway. Easy in a cub, though.

The problem with the Citabria is it's a bit too easy for tailwheel
conversion. You'll get the basics, but if you try a cub afterwards you'll
find it significantly more difficult, wheras the other way around would be
a piece of cake. Citabria is a good airplane, but it's not the best
tailwheel trainer for that reason. However, it will certainly do in a
pinch!

That's an interesting comment - I just got my tailwheel endorsement in a Cub
and have flown it another 4 hrs and dozens of landings since.

I plan to transition to a Husky (180 HP CS prop), any comments about what to
expect, relative difficulty, etc?

BDS

"BDS" wrote in
:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

Not really, and I'd be surprised if you could taxi a Citabria with
the tailwheel raised anyway. Easy in a cub, though.

The problem with the Citabria is it's a bit too easy for tailwheel
conversion. You'll get the basics, but if you try a cub afterwards
you'll find it significantly more difficult, wheras the other way
around would be a piece of cake. Citabria is a good airplane, but
it's not the best tailwheel trainer for that reason. However, it will
certainly do in a pinch!

That's an interesting comment - I just got my tailwheel endorsement in
a Cub and have flown it another 4 hrs and dozens of landings since.

I plan to transition to a Husky (180 HP CS prop), any comments about
what to expect, relative difficulty, etc?

Never flown a Husky, but what you learned in the cub will get you into
anyting else with relative ease if you've absorbed what the cub taught
you.
You've learned to get the stick back to the stop during rollout ,
hopefully.(actualy, in a cub you have to have it there as you touch down
or you end up porpoising down the runway, eh? ) If you weren't attentive
to the rudder you ended up going backwards. What else do you need to
know? It teaches you what your feet are for and makes you look like an
idiot if you don't!

Whatever else you get into, you'll have to adapt to, obviously, but it
should be relatively simple now.
If you went from a Cub to a Citabria, for instance, you'd find the full
aft stick touchdown you'd used in the cub would land you tailwheel first
followed by the mains, so you land a little flatter in the Citabria, but
just a little. You'd be amazed at how easily the Citabria was tracking
for you down the runway with little or no need to pedal the rudder
around like you had in the cub, aside from that, the rest of the
checkout would be mostly about the aicraft systems.. Some of the faster
homebuilt bipes also touch down like this. Starduster, for instance.
If you got into a T-Craft after acub you'd have an even easier time, the
biggest difference being the float (take these with a pinch of salt as
the last time I flew a T-Craft was in the 70s) the Luscombe, no problem
either. Again, it;'s clean so it won't just come to a halt in mid-air
like th ecub will when you pull the power off, but once you get used to
that, you're in. The main things about the Luscombe are that it spins
relatively easily compared to a lot of airplanes, but it's not a problem
if you're paying attention to it and the fact that though it's no harder
on the ground than a cub, it will happily roll itsefl into a small wad
of aluminum if you **** up and groundloop it, wheras the cub will only
provide the peanut gallery at the airport with a few laughs.
Even a Pitts isn't such a big step up if you have mastered a cub (as
opposed to having jus survived a few hours in a Cub)

I still haven't flown a better training airplane.


Bertie

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

Never flown a Husky, but what you learned in the cub will get you into
anyting else with relative ease if you've absorbed what the cub taught
you.

It's still teaching me as I continue to work on perfecting my technique.
After a couple thousand hours in tricycle gear airplanes, I'm finding that
just going around the pattern chasing that painted-on 3-pointer is more fun
than I could have imagined. Who would have thought that this little 1940's
vintage 85HP airplane with no electrical system could be so challenging and
so much fun?!

You've learned to get the stick back to the stop during rollout ,
hopefully.(actualy, in a cub you have to have it there as you touch down
or you end up porpoising down the runway, eh? ) If you weren't attentive
to the rudder you ended up going backwards. What else do you need to
know? It teaches you what your feet are for and makes you look like an
idiot if you don't!

I have to smile reading this. I'm flying from a grass strip that's less
than smooth in spots and I was getting lazy holding the stick all the way
back on the stop during the rollout. Finally, my instructor turns around
and laughingly says to me "You're gonna lose it one of these times if you
keep letting the stick bounce like that." That cured me of that little bad
habit right then and there.

Even a Pitts isn't such a big step up if you have mastered a cub (as
opposed to having jus survived a few hours in a Cub)

I'm no longer just surviving but I also know I haven't quite mastered it
yet.

I still haven't flown a better training airplane.

The best part is that my wife absolutely loves flying in the thing,
especially with the door and window open. What a blast!

BDS

Not really, and I'd be surprised if you could taxi a Citabria with the
tailwheel raised anyway. Easy in a cub, though.


Firstly this isnt a troll and if somebody feels it is, they simply
need to ignore it, thats how usenet works. Anyways, the question was
based more on what I saw on the takeoff run where we raise the tail as
airspeed increases. It just felt more stable and more like a
conventional gear takeoff run in that phase, so I was just wondering.
The intent of the question wasn't about how to taxi at a high speed.

The problem with the Citabria is it's a bit too easy for tailwheel
conversion. You'll get the basics, but if you try a cub afterwards you'll
find it significantly more difficult, wheras the other way around would be
a piece of cake. Citabria is a good airplane, but it's not the best
tailwheel trainer for that reason. However, it will certainly do in a
pinch!

Thanks for the tip, I have been looking to find a place to learn in a
cub but the closest one is about 70 miles away, so that may have to
wait.

The CG doesn't change significantly when the tail is raised, though, to
answer your question, and fast taxiing is something best left to someone
with a LOT of tailwhel time. Taxiing on the mains is something best left to
airshow pilots or guys that can afford to replace props as easily as they
would buy a cup of coffee.

What my instructor seemed to imply (and things didn't really sink in
till about a day after the flying) was that the takeoff roll is more
stable when the tail is up. So I was wondering if the CG shifts
forward when the tail is raised because this is a more stable
configuration than when the CG is behind the main wheels.

Little Endian wrote:
This weekend I began my tailwheel endorsement endeavor and had a
lesson in a shiny 160 hp Citabria. It was great fun but the stick and
rudder forces seemed pretty heavy compared to the C-150 I am used to.
The trim was in an unfamiliar position and I didn't get used to using
it enough on the first flight perhaps. However are there tailwheels
that are lighter to handle than the citabria?
The other issue I was wondering about: does the position of the CG
shift when the tail is raised? So is the tailwheel more stable while
taxing at a higher speed on the two front wheels? In other words, I am
wondering if a tailwheel taxing with the tail raised has a similar CG
position to a tricycle gear airplane.

So you've found out what those pedals
on the floor are for. (:

Seriously, after flying ultralight and
light sport planes, I was really surprised
that a 150 will fly fine with your feet
on the floor.

Both the light sport planes I've flown
required aggressive rudder control, with
one of them needing substantial "top rudder"
at times.

Neither are taildraggers.

"BDS" wrote in
:

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

Never flown a Husky, but what you learned in the cub will get you
into anyting else with relative ease if you've absorbed what the cub
taught you.

It's still teaching me as I continue to work on perfecting my
technique. After a couple thousand hours in tricycle gear airplanes,
I'm finding that just going around the pattern chasing that painted-on
3-pointer is more fun than I could have imagined. Who would have
thought that this little 1940's vintage 85HP airplane with no
electrical system could be so challenging and so much fun?!


Yep. Best thing is it never really grows old. It's still one of the most
satisfying things to do in an airplane as far as I'm concerned.
Heaven is slipping over the fence in a biplane and settling onto freshly
cut grass...



You've learned to get the stick back to the stop during rollout ,
hopefully.(actualy, in a cub you have to have it there as you touch
down or you end up porpoising down the runway, eh? ) If you weren't
attentive to the rudder you ended up going backwards. What else do
you need to know? It teaches you what your feet are for and makes
you look like an idiot if you don't!

I have to smile reading this. I'm flying from a grass strip that's
less than smooth in spots and I was getting lazy holding the stick all
the way back on the stop during the rollout. Finally, my instructor
turns around and laughingly says to me "You're gonna lose it one of
these times if you keep letting the stick bounce like that." That
cured me of that little bad habit right then and there.

Yeah, you have to do that it petty much al talidraggers after they're
down.

Even a Pitts isn't such a big step up if you have mastered a cub (as
opposed to having jus survived a few hours in a Cub)

I'm no longer just surviving but I also know I haven't quite mastered
it yet.

Well, it takes time is all. Once you're off and sort of wobbling along
on your own the real learning begins, eh?

I still haven't flown a better training airplane.

The best part is that my wife absolutely loves flying in the thing,
especially with the door and window open. What a blast!



Excellent. Enjoy yourself.

One piece of advice I can give that's useful to new talidragger pilots,
or at least I've found it so, is to get religious about aving the
controls in the right position when taxiing in wind. Any wind at all.
Even three knots. For one thing, having the ailerons in particualr,
plcaed correctly, you increase your control of the airplane
dramatically. Being in the habit of doing this wil give you the edge you
need it during crosswind landings. It's habits that come to the
forefront when your brain degenerates to it's primevel state when things
start happening quickly.
BTW, when taxiing with a tailwind you need to reverse, as yo know. Don't
forget to consider the taxi speed of your airplane in relation to the
wind. Elevators are tricky in this situation. If you got a roaring
tailwind, you need to have them forward (Careful with the power here or
you could have an instant headwind as far as your elevators are
concerned) It can be hard to tell if you need the elevators up or down
when you're taxing downwind, but th erule I use is if you can feel the
stick "click" as the wind passes ovr the elavotrs as you move them up
and down you should have them down. Make sense?

Bertie