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#51
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Serious STOL fun
"Jim Stewart" wrote in message .. . Peter Dohm wrote: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Veeduber wrote in : On Jan 29, 5:18 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Really? Name a few? Ford, GM, Chrysler, Volvo, Holden, Renault... Volkswagen :-) http://www.gm.com/explore/technology.../specialized/i ndustrial/industrial_engines.jsp Every major automobile manufacturer offers a line of industrial engines. There is also an extensive network of professional over-haul shops that specialize in industrial engines. For 2008 GM is introducing lighter weight Brazilian built utility engines to replace the all-cast-iron models that have been standard since the late 1940's. The world can't run without utility engines for deep-well pumps, air compressors, portable arc welders, orchard sprayers, fork lifts, all manner of farm equipment... Many of these engines are an EXACT match for the Model A but being of modern design, they offer better durability and reduced fuel consumption, typically at less weight. INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is that little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight guys use the little Continental 084s as well. Bertie Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most of the little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with overhead valve Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee configuration was to fit the new engines within the width of the equipment that the older flat head engines typically powered--but I really don't know with any certainty. I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only find that it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From that, I would expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of 90 to 105 pounds, which would be appropriate for a single seat LSA with a gross weight of 600 to 650 pounds. But, I don't know the actual specs and am curious to learn more. Is this it? http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/554471936.html Looks like this guy has been picking them up surplus for quite a while and flipping them on craigslist. Yes, it appears to be. I had located just enough info to find that there was an 8 cid per cylinder version and a 21 cid per cylinder version; but I did not realize that the 8 cid per cylinder was also a 4 banger. In any case, both appear to be intriguing and probably very smooth for their power levels. Thanks again for the update. Peter |
#52
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Serious STOL fun
"Peter Dohm" wrote in
: "Jim Stewart" wrote in message .. . Peter Dohm wrote: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Veeduber wrote in news:4e7dc1fd-653d-4c18-8e93-601b1a908203 @c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.co m: On Jan 29, 5:18 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Really? Name a few? Ford, GM, Chrysler, Volvo, Holden, Renault... Volkswagen :-) http://www.gm.com/explore/technology...ines/specializ ed/i ndustrial/industrial_engines.jsp Every major automobile manufacturer offers a line of industrial engines. There is also an extensive network of professional over-haul shops that specialize in industrial engines. For 2008 GM is introducing lighter weight Brazilian built utility engines to replace the all-cast-iron models that have been standard since the late 1940's. The world can't run without utility engines for deep-well pumps, air compressors, portable arc welders, orchard sprayers, fork lifts, all manner of farm equipment... Many of these engines are an EXACT match for the Model A but being of modern design, they offer better durability and reduced fuel consumption, typically at less weight. INteresting. The only one I know of commonly used for aviation is that little 2 cyl Onan they put on Quickies. I know some ultralight guys use the little Continental 084s as well. Bertie Not sure whether the little Onan boxer is still in production. Most of the little opposed cylinder flat heads have been replaced with overhead valve Vee-twins. I strongly suspect that the switch to Vee configuration was to fit the new engines within the width of the equipment that the older flat head engines typically powered--but I really don't know with any certainty. I looked for a little info on the Continental O-84 and could only find that it is a 4 cylinder of 21 cubic inches per cylinder. From that, I would expect a power rating of 40 to 50 HP and a weight of 90 to 105 pounds, which would be appropriate for a single seat LSA with a gross weight of 600 to 650 pounds. But, I don't know the actual specs and am curious to learn more. Is this it? http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/554471936.html Looks like this guy has been picking them up surplus for quite a while and flipping them on craigslist. Yes, it appears to be. I had located just enough info to find that there was an 8 cid per cylinder version and a 21 cid per cylinder version; but I did not realize that the 8 cid per cylinder was also a 4 banger. In any case, both appear to be intriguing and probably very smooth for their power levels. Thanks again for the update. IIRC there is also a fairly powerful twin which I think might be a better airplanr engine than the four. |
#53
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Serious STOL fun
On Jan 30, 7:48*pm, WingFlaps wrote:
On Jan 31, 4:27*pm, William Hung wrote: On Jan 29, 8:08*pm, "Morgans" wrote: "William Hung" wrote Why the Jabiru Jim? You probably have noticed that I have no love for Rotax; so that is why #1 - *It isn't a Rotax. #2 - Direct drive, so it eliminates another possible failure point. #3 - It has a realistic HP to weight ratio, so it is not terribly overstressed like Rotax #4 - They have been though some of a learning curve, have had some problems that they admitted to, and actively worked to correct. #5 - They offer some different sizes to fit your needs - another one will be out soon, I believe. *It will be an 8 cylinder, and it plain "looks cool!" #6 - Not many other offerings that are modern engines, not from the ancient Lycoming-Continental gene pool. #7 - Cost is somewhat reasonable. #8 - It isn't a Rotax #9 - It isn't a Rotax #10- It isn't a Rotax I personally will probably go with an auto conversion, but I realize that some people do not have the ability or the desire to do something like that. I do, on both accounts. *I very much enjoy playing with things like perfecting an engine conversion. The plan is to get a conversion rigged up, and make a relatively cheap plywood airboat, and run the hell out of it, while enjoying the time playing with a unique boat on the lake. *My thought is that it lives through the gyroscopic loads of rapid hard pounding on a boat, it will survive quite well in an airplane. -- Jim in NC Do you have any particular engine in mind for your conversion? Someone somewhere used a Harley engine. I can't help but wonder, did they also add tassels or studs to their flying jacket? Cheers- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Probably studs. lol Wil |
#54
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Serious STOL fun
On Jan 30, 8:38*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"William Hung" wrote Do you have any particular engine in mind for your conversion? Someone somewhere used a Harley engine. *I also have read somewhere of a Yamaha Virago powered airplane and a BMW powered one even. A Harley engine looks neat, but I don't like the vibration factor of most of them. *Plus column includes many aftermarket parts available, and the form of not having the gearbox as part of the engine case. Most motorcycle engines have the bike's transmission as part of the crankcase. *That causes it to be heavy, and very difficult to get the power coming straight from the crankshaft. *Some have use the bike gears, but using a lower gear , like 3rd gear (or something-take your pick) is problematic, because they will not usually hold up to the punishment. *It has been done by some people, but not by me. g The Subaru engines have a long history of being good engines, and some seem to have "gotten it right." There are some other engines that look interesting, like some straight 4 cylinder engines. *Honda engines have been successfully converted. *I think some kind of straight 4 is my current choice. *They have a nice slim form that would look pretty good, I think. *I probably would go with a cog drive belt, since they avoid a lot of pitfalls with chain or gear slap from those types of prop reduction drive units. I'm still a year or so away from getting serious with that type of experimenting. *When it gets closer, I'll get serious about some investigating. -- Jim in NC I'm about two years away from starting ort buying my plane. I'm OK with the Rotax engines, will probably go with the four stroke 912. If I do build, it will either be the Rans S-7 or the Zenith/Zenair 701. Wil |
#55
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Serious STOL fun
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote Tha'd certanly put me off. I can see it being a weld cracking experience! I think (don't quote me on this) that some of them have balance shafts, so are smoother. There would certainly need to be extra attention given to engine mount bushings. -- Jim in NC |
#56
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Serious STOL fun
"Morgans" wrote in
: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote Tha'd certanly put me off. I can see it being a weld cracking experience! I think (don't quote me on this) that some of them have balance shafts, so are smoother. I know some three or less cyl rice rockets have these, allright. I have no idea about v twins, though. There would certainly need to be extra attention given to engine mount bushings. He he. yeah! Bertie |
#57
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Serious STOL fun
On Jan 28, 7:26*am, wrote:
C'on Jim, it's not so ugly. *Looks like a Jeep Willy of the sky to me, and I think the Willy's jeeps look great. *My plan is to one day get a C150, I'm leaning towards building the 701 now. *Maybe with a 582 or if finances allow, a 912. Wil- For a while I thought more HP would be better for the 701, 100 instead of 80. After reading a detailed pilot report of it with 100, I've decided 80 is fine. I'm going for a VW, 2149 cc. Nitrided crank. "Geared down" with one of Great Plain's pulleys. More thrust, power 80 to 100 What are the goods and the bads of having it 80hp and 100 hp? Are you going for the folding wing option? Wil |
#58
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Serious STOL fun
On Feb 4, 10:51*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Morgans" wrote : "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote Tha'd certanly put me off. I can see it being a weld cracking experience! *I think (don't quote me on this) that some of them have balance *shafts, so are smoother. I know some three or less cyl rice rockets have these, allright. I have no idea about v twins, though. There would certainly need to be extra attention given to engine mount bushings. He he. yeah! Bertie What am I missing here? The Harley's welds seam to be holding up ok. Wil |
#59
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Serious STOL fun
William Hung wrote in
: On Feb 4, 10:51*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: "Morgans" wrote innews:Udvpj.1189$az7.292@newsf e07.lga: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote Tha'd certanly put me off. I can see it being a weld cracking experience! *I think (don't quote me on this) that some of them have balance *shafts, so are smoother. I know some three or less cyl rice rockets have these, allright. I have no idea about v twins, though. There would certainly need to be extra attention given to engine mount bushings. He he. yeah! Bertie What am I missing here? The Harley's welds seam to be holding up ok. Yeah on milder steel about four times the thinckness of aircraft tubing! Bertie |
#60
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Serious STOL fun
On Feb 4, 9:07*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
William Hung wrote : On Feb 4, 10:51*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote: "Morgans" wrote innews:Udvpj.1189$az7.292@newsf e07.lga: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote Tha'd certanly put me off. I can see it being a weld cracking experience! *I think (don't quote me on this) that some of them have balance *shafts, so are smoother. I know some three or less cyl rice rockets have these, allright. I have no idea about v twins, though. There would certainly need to be extra attention given to engine mount bushings. He he. yeah! Bertie What am I missing here? *The Harley's welds seam to be holding up ok. Yeah on milder steel about four times the thinckness of aircraft tubing! Bertie- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Ah... Wil |
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