engine pre-oiler

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:18:02 -0800, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
wrote:

Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps requiring
priming?
Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit of
space.
"Maxwell" wrote in message
...

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
I've got to admit that idea has never been put forth, but I'm playing
with a helicopter and increasing weight is looked at very closely. My
accumulator that I built weighs 2.9# but the electric fuel pumps that I
have been reviewing weigh less than 2#. I think that the smog pump is
much heavier.
BTW I fly in the desert and corrosion is pretty much a non-issue. I had
a raw 4130 helicopter frame setting outside for about 10yrs and you could
wipe off the rust with a paper towel.
I would really like to have a system mounted on the helicopter that would
pre-oil just before start up. I some time have periods on the airshow
circuit where the engine does not get started for several weeks and I
would like to pre-oil prior to starting and be able to do that from the
cockpit or possibly from a manual pump providing that I can keep the
weight down.

Just some random thoughts...

- Three pounds for an accumulator seems like a good reliable and
reasonable weight solution to me, if you just don't forget to charge it
before each engine shut down.

- I don't think a fuel pump will reliably pump cold aviation motor oil.
Have you experimented with one?

- Have you considered a tiny gear pump you could spin with a hand crank or
cordless drill during preflight?



Grab the oil pump out of a Honda Goldwing

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Morgans: This time I'm way ahead. I had both cam and piston skirt spray
nozzles installed during the engine overhaul. It is definitely a
non-certified application. My 0320 was modified by me to run vertical.
Stu
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

wrote

A quart of prime would be six or eight times as much as is needed
to preoil the engine. My little hand-pump on my A-65 does it with ten .
75 cubic-inch strokes, for 7.5 cu. in. total. A larger engine might
take 10 or 12 cubic inches.

Someone on the RV forum mentioned making an accumulator out of a
air-conditioning freon can. That, plus a couple valves and plumbing would
be pretty darn light.

One thing to keep in mind, is that the pre oiler will not do anything to
lubricate the camshaft, one of the parts that takes the most wear on dry
start-up.

If this is a non certified application, you could split the cases and add
a spray bar to help the cam.
--
Jim in NC

So far the winner appears to be a little(less than 3#) 12V pump delrin gear
pump capable of 1.5 -3 gpm of oil. This unit with a check valve and a
pickup from the sump, and of course some $200+ dollars and I'm in business.
The Infinity solution is just a bit more expensive but also looks feasible.
Stu
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Maxwell wrote:
"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .

Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps
requiring priming?


How about something like this, or perhaps something like it in aluminum.
http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspe...l_00RGPump.htm
Just mount it below the sump so it's always primed. Just include a good
check valve so you couldn't loose oil presure back through it. This
particular size would probably be best driven by a cordless drill, but a
higher displacement unit might be turned with a had crank.


Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit
of space.


Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited
to about a quart of prime.





Don't you think thi sis getting a little over the top now?

It's an O-320.

Not an R9800.

Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:

So far the winner appears to be a little(less than 3#) 12V pump delrin gear
pump capable of 1.5 -3 gpm of oil. This unit with a check valve and a
pickup from the sump, and of course some $200+ dollars and I'm in business.
The Infinity solution is just a bit more expensive but also looks feasible.
Stu
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...



I know what kind of machines you fly, Stuart.
That's why I didn't suggest "Flip the prop".


Three pounds isn't that bad - once.

But don't make a habit of it...


Richard

wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 2:04 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:

Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a
bit
of space.

Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited
to
about a quart of prime.

A quart of prime would be six or eight times as much as is needed
to preoil the engine. My little hand-pump on my A-65 does it with ten .
75 cubic-inch strokes, for 7.5 cu. in. total. A larger engine might
take 10 or 12 cubic inches. An engine tighter than mine (61 years old
now) would take much less.
A quart has just under 58 cubic inches.


You got any photos of that rig?

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Maxwell wrote:
"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .

Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps
requiring priming?


How about something like this, or perhaps something like it in aluminum.
http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspe...l_00RGPump.htm
Just mount it below the sump so it's always primed. Just include a good
check valve so you couldn't loose oil presure back through it. This
particular size would probably be best driven by a cordless drill, but a
higher displacement unit might be turned with a had crank.


Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit
of space.


Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited
to about a quart of prime.





Don't you think thi sis getting a little over the top now?

It's an O-320.

Not an R9800.


What would you suggest?

Maxwell wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

Maxwell wrote:

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
m...


Maxwell: Do you know of a tiny gear pump or where to look that might be
used by hand or cordless drill? Is there a problem with gear pumps
requiring priming?


How about something like this, or perhaps something like it in aluminum.
http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspe...l_00RGPump.htm
Just mount it below the sump so it's always primed. Just include a good
check valve so you couldn't loose oil presure back through it. This
particular size would probably be best driven by a cordless drill, but a
higher displacement unit might be turned with a had crank.



Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a bit
of space.


Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited
to about a quart of prime.





Don't you think thi sis getting a little over the top now?

It's an O-320.

Not an R9800.



What would you suggest?




KISS!

Keep it Simple stupid.

AND

Lighter is better.

Maxwell: The engine is installed in my Baby Belle helicopter. It has a dry
sump located just below the accesory case and a flat plate replaces the
normal cast sump which contained the intake manifold. A new intake manifold
was constructed, drain tubes made for the valve covers and an oil return was
fashioned connected to the accesory case. Works like gangbusters so far
(230hrs). If you want I could snap a shot and send them to you via e-mail?
Stu
"Maxwell" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Dec 30, 2:04 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:

Yep in some ways the accumulator looks good except it does take up a
bit
of space.

Yeah, and useless if you forget to reset it during shutdown, and limited
to
about a quart of prime.

A quart of prime would be six or eight times as much as is needed
to preoil the engine. My little hand-pump on my A-65 does it with ten .
75 cubic-inch strokes, for 7.5 cu. in. total. A larger engine might
take 10 or 12 cubic inches. An engine tighter than mine (61 years old
now) would take much less.
A quart has just under 58 cubic inches.


You got any photos of that rig?

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

KISS!

Keep it Simple stupid.

AND

Lighter is better.


Agreed. But what do you suggest would be lighter and simpler?

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" wrote in message
.. .
Maxwell: The engine is installed in my Baby Belle helicopter. It has a
dry sump located just below the accesory case and a flat plate replaces
the normal cast sump which contained the intake manifold. A new intake
manifold was constructed, drain tubes made for the valve covers and an oil
return was fashioned connected to the accesory case. Works like
gangbusters so far (230hrs). If you want I could snap a shot and send
them to you via e-mail?

That's ok Stu, I have a pretty good idea what your installation looks like.
I was trying to picture the installation Dan keeps referring to.