best mil+aviation writers?

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
Stephen Coonts - Flight of the Intruder, The Intruders, among others.

I've read some Coonts articles & enjoyed them, but never a book. Is he
a really really good writer? Do you sweat bullets when you read him?
Do your eyes light up because you've just had an insight you've never
had before? ROTFL?

Is Flight of the Intruder a personal memoir, or is it a novel or a
history?

Coonts CAN be very, very good. FOTI is some parts memoir, I think,
and I imagine The Intruders is, too. Some of the later Grafton
novels...not so hot, IMO.

I liked the Richard Herman, Jr. series starting with The Warbirds
(characters Jack Locke, "Muddy" Waters, Pontowski, etc.), although
like with Brown, Coonts, etc., the need to carry on a storyline
through a number of books sometimes overwhelms the ability to do so.

And I have to say, at the risk of sounding sycophantic, I liked
Rasimus's style of writing, too. He and WaltBJ (and a few others)
have composed posts on this board that rival the quality of what some
authors get into mass-market print.

In article , Steve
writes

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
.. .

If you were going to name a couple of the greatest writers about
military aviation, who would they be?

I want personal recollections, not history. I'd like names that large
numbers of people would recognize.


There are three that I can name offhand:

Martin Caidin - Whip, The Last Dogfight, (fiction), Everything But the
Flak!, Thunderbolt!, Zero! (non-fiction). Also authored "Cyborg," which
became "The Six Million Dollar Man" on television.

Stephen Coonts - Flight of the Intruder, The Intruders, among others.

Dale Brown - Flight of the Old Dog, Night of the Hawk, Fatal Terrain, Battle
Born, among others. Brown crosses the realm of old-fashioned aviation
writing and science fiction.

Steve


Now you have complicated things by bringing fiction into it!

There could be a lot more truly accurate and exciting aviation fiction
on the market if only the publishers were not looking for the 'right
emotional focus' - cue for characters with outlandish personal traits
and a politically correct emphasis. And there is of course the
'heartrending tale of young love tested by a world at war' - cue for a
nice book cover, abundant technical inaccuracies, and an operational
lifestyle unknown to history.

The demand for 'broad appeal' has a lot to answer for.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

On Mon, 10 May 2004 18:47:01 +0100, Dave Eadsforth
wrote:

Now you have complicated things by bringing fiction into it!

There could be a lot more truly accurate and exciting aviation fiction
on the market if only the publishers were not looking for the 'right
emotional focus' - cue for characters with outlandish personal traits
and a politically correct emphasis. And there is of course the
'heartrending tale of young love tested by a world at war' - cue for a
nice book cover, abundant technical inaccuracies, and an operational
lifestyle unknown to history.

The demand for 'broad appeal' has a lot to answer for.

Tell me about it!

While trying to maintain a semblance of realism and acknowledgment of
the combined talent and inherent immaturity of the fighter pilot, I
included the following anonymous poem, gleaned from Internet sources
to the dedication of my new book. It has fallen to the cutting room
floor, never to see the light of publication, a victim of political
correctness. It says a lot. (Anyone know the origin?????)

Girls with their pants down

Because somewhere in me is still the little boy,
who wants to kick the can and write on walls,
and hitch rides on the tailgates of trucks,
and pull little girls' pants down.

And somewhere in me is still the go-to-hell pilot
in the go-to-hell hat flinging an aircraft
down boundless halls of space,
and talking with hands for airplanes,
and reliving the Po delta and the Mekong delta,
and reaching out to touch the face of God,
and profaning those who are tied to earth,
and pulling girls' pants down.

And somewhere in me is the Descartes and the Sartre
who philosophizes on the here and the hereafter,
and the deism of all that lives and not lives,
and the beauty of sky and water and cloven hoofs and man, and girls with
their pants down.

And deep inside me there is that uncompromising realist
who knows that this is all a terribly temporary gift;
that sometime, perhaps this next second,
he must run into that last hard object,
be it the side of a mountain, the slam of a bullet,
or that massive grasp of a giant's hand on a faltering heart.
When that time comes, if there is one thing to remember.
It will be that sweet memory that transcends them all,
the little boy, the go-to-heller, the philosopher, the realist;
it will be the ineffably beautiful picture of a girl. . .
with her pants down.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...


IIRC it was the fact that he used his Vietnam experience to try and excuse
his little legal fiasco. I actually made the mistake of buying a copy and
when I skimmed it later and caught that angle I put it aside--I mentioned
it
to the older brother later, and he sort of scoffed at the book, which he
had
read himself.

Brooks

I can see how that'd probably annoy other Vietnam vets - especially those
with the stones to admit and make good their mistakes (if any). Thinking
about the first time I read the book, I found it a real let down - so when
I've read it since I've always stopped at the penultimate chapter. Hence
forgetting about Mason's later transgressings.

Jim Doyle

In article , Ed Rasimus
writes
On Mon, 10 May 2004 18:47:01 +0100, Dave Eadsforth
wrote:

Now you have complicated things by bringing fiction into it!

There could be a lot more truly accurate and exciting aviation fiction
on the market if only the publishers were not looking for the 'right
emotional focus' - cue for characters with outlandish personal traits
and a politically correct emphasis. And there is of course the
'heartrending tale of young love tested by a world at war' - cue for a
nice book cover, abundant technical inaccuracies, and an operational
lifestyle unknown to history.

The demand for 'broad appeal' has a lot to answer for.

Tell me about it!

While trying to maintain a semblance of realism and acknowledgment of
the combined talent and inherent immaturity of the fighter pilot, I
included the following anonymous poem, gleaned from Internet sources
to the dedication of my new book. It has fallen to the cutting room
floor, never to see the light of publication, a victim of political
correctness. It says a lot. (Anyone know the origin?????)

Girls with their pants down

Because somewhere in me is still the little boy,
who wants to kick the can and write on walls,
and hitch rides on the tailgates of trucks,
and pull little girls' pants down.

And somewhere in me is still the go-to-hell pilot
in the go-to-hell hat flinging an aircraft
down boundless halls of space,
and talking with hands for airplanes,
and reliving the Po delta and the Mekong delta,
and reaching out to touch the face of God,
and profaning those who are tied to earth,
and pulling girls' pants down.

And somewhere in me is the Descartes and the Sartre
who philosophizes on the here and the hereafter,
and the deism of all that lives and not lives,
and the beauty of sky and water and cloven hoofs and man, and girls with
their pants down.

And deep inside me there is that uncompromising realist
who knows that this is all a terribly temporary gift;
that sometime, perhaps this next second,
he must run into that last hard object,
be it the side of a mountain, the slam of a bullet,
or that massive grasp of a giant's hand on a faltering heart.
When that time comes, if there is one thing to remember.
It will be that sweet memory that transcends them all,
the little boy, the go-to-heller, the philosopher, the realist;
it will be the ineffably beautiful picture of a girl. . .
with her pants down.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

Thanks for that, Ed - duly cut and pasted, and will be cherished...

I was taught to fly by a loony ex-Spitfire pilot who probably fitted the
mould you have described. I am glad that I am the age that I am and
have had the chance to talk to some of these guys - but I suspect you
have known many more...

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

In article , Kevin Brooks wrote:

IIRC it was the fact that he used his Vietnam experience to try and excuse
his little legal fiasco. I actually made the mistake of buying a copy and
when I skimmed it later and caught that angle I put it aside--I mentioned it
to the older brother later, and he sort of scoffed at the book, which he had
read himself.

I didn't get the impression he did any such thing. I believe the part about
his life after the military was only a few pages. I can't vouch for the veracity
of the book, but I enjoyed it a lot. Perhaps you are thinking of his second
book, which picked up where the first one ended?

Mike Beede

In article , Ed Rasimus wrote:

While trying to maintain a semblance of realism and acknowledgment of
the combined talent and inherent immaturity of the fighter pilot, I
included the following anonymous poem, gleaned from Internet sources
to the dedication of my new book. It has fallen to the cutting room
floor, never to see the light of publication, a victim of political
correctness. It says a lot. (Anyone know the origin?????)

So the publisher wouldn't let you include it? Or someone talked
you out of it? If the former--boo hiss. I guess I foolishly thought
that authors had control over things like that.

Mike Beede

On Thu, 13 May 2004 12:59:59 -0500, Mike Beede wrote:

In article , Ed Rasimus wrote:

While trying to maintain a semblance of realism and acknowledgment of
the combined talent and inherent immaturity of the fighter pilot, I
included the following anonymous poem, gleaned from Internet sources
to the dedication of my new book. It has fallen to the cutting room
floor, never to see the light of publication, a victim of political
correctness. It says a lot. (Anyone know the origin?????)

So the publisher wouldn't let you include it? Or someone talked
you out of it? If the former--boo hiss. I guess I foolishly thought
that authors had control over things like that.

While the contract may say that the publisher will not make
"significant" or "major" revisions to the work, it is surprising what
they can do. I had a lot of input on the first book, but the second
one has had the title changed (over my strenuous objections) and the
cover art settled without consideration of my input.

The poem is considered indelicate, particularly in this period of
sexual harassment scandals at the AFA and other places. Might be too
reminiscent of Tailhook.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I collect books about the air war in Southeast Asia circa 1964 to 1975.
Here are my favorite works about that period:

When Thunder Rolled -- Ed Rasimus.
Anything by Jack Broughton.
IMHO, these are the definitive books about the F-105 mission during
Rolling Thunder. Ed disagrees with me, but I'll give an honorable mention
to the book by Gen. Bell as well.

Over the Beach -- Zalin Grant.
The Heart of a Man -- Frank Elkins.
Captain Hook -- Wynn Foster.
On Yankee Station -- John Nichols & Barrett Tillman
Flight of the Intruder -- Stephen Coonts.
Wilcox' book (forget the name) about the creation of Top Gun. Perhaps
Scream of Eagles?
Any novel by Gerry Carroll.
These are the best books about naval aviation in that peried. If you're a
naval aviation fan, you should should also seek out the Motorbooks
collection of articles from the Naval Safety Center's Approach magazine.
Every one is based on actual events, and they are terrific.

Clashes
The Eleven Days of Christmas
both by Marshal Michel
Definitive studies of the air-to-air war over NVN and the Linebacker II
campaign, respectively.

"Paul Michael Brown" wrote in message
news
I collect books about the air war in Southeast Asia circa 1964 to 1975.
Here are my favorite works about that period:

When Thunder Rolled -- Ed Rasimus.
Anything by Jack Broughton.
IMHO, these are the definitive books about the F-105 mission during
Rolling Thunder. Ed disagrees with me, but I'll give an honorable mention
to the book by Gen. Bell as well.

Over the Beach -- Zalin Grant.
The Heart of a Man -- Frank Elkins.
Captain Hook -- Wynn Foster.
On Yankee Station -- John Nichols & Barrett Tillman
Flight of the Intruder -- Stephen Coonts.
Wilcox' book (forget the name) about the creation of Top Gun. Perhaps
Scream of Eagles?
Any novel by Gerry Carroll.

Carrol claimed to be a Vietnam veteran who was shot down three times (just
ask Tom Clancy, who vouched for him in each of his three novels, including
the last one that was printed after his death). Nice story--if it were true.
Sadly, it is not. He was a navy helo pilot, but he never served in Vietnam.
Burkett and Whitley revealed the truth behind this sham Vietnam vet in
"Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation was Robbed of its Heroes and its
History" back in 1998. While I recall liking his books, learning the above
has left me unwilling to ever recommend them to anyone else.

Brooks

These are the best books about naval aviation in that peried. If you're a
naval aviation fan, you should should also seek out the Motorbooks
collection of articles from the Naval Safety Center's Approach magazine.
Every one is based on actual events, and they are terrific.

Clashes
The Eleven Days of Christmas
both by Marshal Michel
Definitive studies of the air-to-air war over NVN and the Linebacker II
campaign, respectively.