Wind limits - small single engine aircraft

I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.

But I'm interested in what the various opinions are. How much wind is
too much to fly, for you? And how much crosswind component? Does your
max crosswind component vary with windspeed? And how about how gusty it
is? Clearly if it's more gusty that's a bad thing, but how gusty is too
gusty?

Of course I have my own views on this but I'm wondering what others
think. And by the way the context is that I have decided to cancel my
flight tomorrow (Boston area) due to winds, but I'm still hoping to fly
on Sunday.

I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

Thanks

Tom

wrote:
I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

I think many pilots need to get out and fly in windy/gusty conditions
more. By doing that you will strengthen your skills and confidence in
aircraft control.

The 172 really is capable of handling some pretty windy conditions. As
for crosswinds, as long as the runway is long enough you should give
it a try and see if you have sufficient rudder authority, if not, use
another runway.

On 19 Jan 2007 22:53:33 -0800, wrote:

I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.

But I'm interested in what the various opinions are. How much wind is
too much to fly, for you? And how much crosswind component? Does your
max crosswind component vary with windspeed? And how about how gusty it
is? Clearly if it's more gusty that's a bad thing, but how gusty is too
gusty?

Of course I have my own views on this but I'm wondering what others
think. And by the way the context is that I have decided to cancel my
flight tomorrow (Boston area) due to winds, but I'm still hoping to fly
on Sunday.

I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

Thanks

Tom

you should be able to fly in conditions where the windsock is
horizontal from any direction.
(obviously you change runway ends when it is from behind)

the scariest ????? (scariest isnt the right word here, you shouldnt
ever be scared because you have been trained)
the most demanding conditions are turbulence and gusting winds.

the winds dont go away just because you arent up to speed with the
demands so you should read up on the correct technique and then
practise in increasingly more difficult conditions.

if you cant fly with the windsock horizontal you'd better not try
flying crosscountry because one day you will find it horizontal and at
the end of a long flight you might not have enough fuel to go anywhere
else.

there is no bravado to flying in strong winds. it is just difficult
and demanding flying. it can be done though.

do you know how to guess at the wind speed from the windsock angle?
its a useful skill.

Stealth (windsock horizontal in any direction) Pilot
Australia

On 19 Jan 2007 22:53:33 -0800, wrote:

I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.

But I'm interested in what the various opinions are. How much wind is
too much to fly, for you? And how much crosswind component? Does your
max crosswind component vary with windspeed? And how about how gusty it
is? Clearly if it's more gusty that's a bad thing, but how gusty is too
gusty?

Of course I have my own views on this but I'm wondering what others
think. And by the way the context is that I have decided to cancel my
flight tomorrow (Boston area) due to winds, but I'm still hoping to fly
on Sunday.

I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

Thanks

Tom

I think you made a wise decision for today. I see winds forecast on the
order of 27G44 with 40-50K winds out of the NW at lower altitudes. It
probably would not be a comfortable flying day, although you could check
PIREPS later on for reports of turbulence.

Having said that, I note that there are plenty of airports where the
forecast crosswind component is minimal. For example, at KBOS, for much of
the day, there would be zero crosswind component on runway 29.

At KASH, where I'm currently located, the closest forecast winds are from
KMHT and are 30020G35 -- 30023G44

KASH would be landing R32 so the crosswind component would be 7G15 kts
(approximately). That would be within my capabilities (in my a/c).

Sometimes, s&^*t happens. I recall a flight to New Orleans a number of
years ago. Hurricane forecasts weren't as precise as they are today, and a
storm in the Gulf turned into a hurricane and was heading towards New
Orleans as were we. I landed at Lakefront in 40-50Kt winds. But I had a
Plan B which included the fact that the winds were steady (no gust at all
being reported) and that there was a runway at New Orleans International
that was aligned directly into the wind.

Another technique you can use in heavy wind conditions is to land at an
angle to the runway, especially if the runway is wide. KCEF comes to mind,
but others can be used.

You should consider going up with an instructor in windy conditions, so you
can explore your limits in this area.


--ron

Stealth Pilot wrote:

if you cant fly with the windsock horizontal you'd better not try
flying crosscountry because one day you will find it horizontal and at
the end of a long flight you might not have enough fuel to go anywhere
else.

Well stated. We had a case here where someone (a fairly new pilot) and
his wife flew on a multi-day XC and ended up breaking the landing
gear (fixed gear) on his plane when trying to land in a windy cross
wind at an airport far from home. Fortunately no injuries, but the
landing should have been otherwise routine.

Stealth Pilot wrote:

you should be able to fly in conditions where the windsock is
horizontal from any direction.
(obviously you change runway ends when it is from behind)

the scariest ????? (scariest isnt the right word here, you shouldnt
ever be scared because you have been trained)
the most demanding conditions are turbulence and gusting winds.

the winds dont go away just because you arent up to speed with the
demands so you should read up on the correct technique and then
practise in increasingly more difficult conditions.

I would like to point out that being trained doesn't mean that you're
safe handling the aircraft. It means you're aware of the hazards and
you know your limits. Being scared is a sign that you ought to land
somewhere else.

That said, I agree with your assessment that winds can surprise you. It
is good to practice with an instructor on a windy winter day.

I've landed without incident in 25G40 conditions with the runway about
30 to 40 degrees off of the wind direction. The only surprise was after
slowing to about 15 MPH, my aircraft weathervaned toward the right.
There was a high speed taxiway right there in front of me. Instead of
braking, I kept going and stopped on the taxiway. Once I came to a
stop, my airspeed indicator was still reading about 35 MPH from the gust
(I was now facing straight in to the wind).

My personal rule of thumb in the Baltimore area is that if the winds are
blowing 30 knots or greater at 3000 over EMI, I will evaluate my options
very carefully. Above 35 knots I will usually stay put. My reasoning
is that turbulence and LLWS are likely to get pretty dicey when the
winds blow that hard.

Bottom line: A good pilot uses experience to know when to stay on the
ground and training to deal with the unexpected. I have experience in
turbulence, LLWS, and gusty winds, but I won't launch in to it
deliberately. That's one of the nice things about flying for fun. If
it doesn't look like fun, don't do it.

Jake Brodsky

wrote in message
oups.com...
Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.


The title of this thread may be a little misleading to a newbie. Wind down
the runway is a GOOD thing that actually makes landings and takeoffs easier and
safer. Ground speed is less on landing, ground roll is less on takeoff and the
takeoff angle over the runway is far improved. In the pattern, winds can make
the downwind portion go so fast that a new pilot might get behind the airplane,
but if you are flying a slow plane and doing a crab for a proper base leg track,
you have a wonderful view of the runway while on your base leg, and your turn
onto final can actually be far less than 90 degrees. Short field landings into
a headwind are far easier, and can actually fool you into believing you have
skills that you don't.

Crosswinds and gusty conditions are a 'nuther whole matter. If you go out
to the airport and find those conditions, rather than canceling, it might be a
good time to seek an idle CFI and use the opportunity to work on skills and
self-confidence.

Vaughn CFIG

wrote in message
oups.com...
I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.

But I'm interested in what the various opinions are. How much wind is
too much to fly, for you? And how much crosswind component? Does your
max crosswind component vary with windspeed? And how about how gusty it
is? Clearly if it's more gusty that's a bad thing, but how gusty is too
gusty?

Of course I have my own views on this but I'm wondering what others
think. And by the way the context is that I have decided to cancel my
flight tomorrow (Boston area) due to winds, but I'm still hoping to fly
on Sunday.

I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

I dont fly if forecast winds ( on the ground) are greater than 25 kts, or
gusting more than 5kts, or forecast crosswind is more than 10kts. I know I
can handle greater than this because I have done so with an instructor, but
by setting these limits I think I can keep myself out of trouble if winds
are stronger than forecast. On one occaision doing solo circuits in a
Warrior a northerly wind sprung up that I reckon must have been close to
40kts, but it was pretty steady and I had a north runway so there was
basically no crosswind component or gusts. it just felt a bit wierd that
the aeroplane didnt seem to be going anywhere on final as I came in with
almost full power. For reference I am PPL with about 180 hrs( over 5
years) .
Terry
PPL downunder

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...

you should be able to fly in conditions where the windsock is
horizontal from any direction.

I can't say I agree with this. I think it's worth pointing out that a
windsock is horizontal at 150 kts, just the same as it is at 15 kts. We had
conditions here a couple weeks ago (Rocky Mountain foothills)where the
windspeed at field elevation was gusting to 80 and 90 miles and hour.

do you know how to guess at the wind speed from the windsock angle?
its a useful skill.

Yes, up to the point the windsock is horizontal, after which you need a
better tool. I don't see that anyone has mentioned the demonstrated
crosswind component, which is in the P.O.H. for certified aircraft. You
may do better, but that's the best number the manufacturer achieved with a
new aircraft and a very good pilot. If the calculated crosswind based on
the wind speed, direction, and available runway exceeds the DCC for your
aircraft, it's cause for at least caution if not an outright scrub of the
flight.

If you're landing at an airport with an overly strong crosswind, and fuel or
other concerns don't allow finding another airport with a more favorable
runway, lack of control authority may make landing on and maintaining the
runway extremely difficult if not impossible.

In article bSwsh.172849$YV4.24801@edtnps89,
"WestCDA" wrote:

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...

you should be able to fly in conditions where the windsock is
horizontal from any direction.

I can't say I agree with this. I think it's worth pointing out that a
windsock is horizontal at 150 kts, just the same as it is at 15 kts.

At 15 kts, the sock is horizontal. At 150 kts, the pole it's mounted on is
horizontal.