The Hustler, concluded - b58 pod gun.jpg (1/1)

Radar aimed or crew served???

Bruce R



"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus the
bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally eneffectual.
Luckily, they never were in a position where it was needed. But, it was
radar controlled.
Ron

"Bruce R" wrote in message
...
Radar aimed or crew served???

Bruce R



"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message
...

"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus the
bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally eneffectual.
Luckily, they never were in a position where it was needed. But, it was
radar controlled.
Ron


Did it actually attack at supersonic speeds? If so, how do you drop a nuke
at that speed?

Bruce R

I don't know the methods involved. According to Jay Miller's book on the
B-58, Aerograph 4, they did several drop tests at supersonic speed, one
being 1.4 M at 40,000 feet, so, it could be done. It sounds like pod
separation was very flat and stable. There may be more in the book about
mission and attack profiles, but, I haven't come accross them yet.
Ron

"Bruce R" wrote in message
...

"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus the
bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally eneffectual.
Luckily, they never were in a position where it was needed. But, it was
radar controlled.
Ron


Did it actually attack at supersonic speeds? If so, how do you drop a
nuke at that speed?

Bruce R

True. But while it could drop its bomb pod at supersonic speeds it quickly
became a suicide mission to penetrate Soviet airspace at high altitude even
at Mach 2. Soviet radar and missiles would blow us out of the sky.
Modifications were made to use low altitude drogue chute retarded bombs to
get below the radar/missile coverage. So the supersonic ability of the
Hustler became somewhat useless as a weapon system.

We did gain a lot of data on supersonic flight from the Hustler.

--
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler Web Site
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
Cadet Class 55-I Web Site
http://pilotclass55india.org/


"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
link.net...
I don't know the methods involved. According to Jay Miller's book on the
B-58, Aerograph 4, they did several drop tests at supersonic speed, one
being 1.4 M at 40,000 feet, so, it could be done. It sounds like pod
separation was very flat and stable. There may be more in the book about
mission and attack profiles, but, I haven't come accross them yet.
Ron

"Bruce R" wrote in message
...

"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus
the bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally eneffectual.
Luckily, they never were in a position where it was needed. But, it was
radar controlled.
Ron


Did it actually attack at supersonic speeds? If so, how do you drop a
nuke at that speed?

Bruce R

And that is supposedly what killed the XB-70, as well.
Ron

"Panic" wrote in message
news
True. But while it could drop its bomb pod at supersonic speeds it
quickly became a suicide mission to penetrate Soviet airspace at high
altitude even at Mach 2. Soviet radar and missiles would blow us out of
the sky. Modifications were made to use low altitude drogue chute retarded
bombs to get below the radar/missile coverage. So the supersonic ability
of the Hustler became somewhat useless as a weapon system.

We did gain a lot of data on supersonic flight from the Hustler.

--
Darrell R. Schmidt
B-58 Hustler Web Site
http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
Cadet Class 55-I Web Site
http://pilotclass55india.org/


"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
link.net...
I don't know the methods involved. According to Jay Miller's book on the
B-58, Aerograph 4, they did several drop tests at supersonic speed, one
being 1.4 M at 40,000 feet, so, it could be done. It sounds like pod
separation was very flat and stable. There may be more in the book about
mission and attack profiles, but, I haven't come accross them yet.
Ron

"Bruce R" wrote in message
...

"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus
the bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally
eneffectual. Luckily, they never were in a position where it was
needed. But, it was radar controlled.
Ron


Did it actually attack at supersonic speeds? If so, how do you drop a
nuke at that speed?

Bruce R

"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus the
bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally eneffectual.
Luckily, they never were in a position where it was needed. But, it was
radar controlled.
Ron

Not quite, Ron. Say the B-58 is traveling at 1,000 MPH and has a tail
cannon with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 MPH. In relation to a ground
observer, if the cannon was fired just as it flew overhead of the observer,
the cannon shell would stop and free fall towards the observer while the
delivery aircraft flew away from the shell at 1,000 MPH departure rate.
But.... if a fighter was pursuing the B-58 at 1,000 MPH he would fly into
the cannon shell at a closure rate of 1,000 MPH. BLOOOOey!!!! goes the
fighter. Everything is relative!!!

Ok, then dispute it with Jay Miller and every other article I have ever read
on the gun.
They said the gun was inefective. And remember, eeven with that fighter
closing in at 1000mph, the bullet is losing altitude. Probably the only way
the fighter would get hit is if it was in a dive. Another thing, which they
have proven with the SR-71, the closure rate isn't too good if the chase
aircraft isn't flying any faster than the aircraft he is pursuing. Even if
he was 100mph faster, by the time he caught up, the plane would probably be
over a friendly country. I don't think they had too many aircraft that good
intercept the B-58, when the B-58 was flying.

Everytrhing is relative, but you have to look at it in the proper
perspective. BLOOEY!
Ron

"Panic" wrote in message
...
"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward versus the
bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally eneffectual.
Luckily, they never were in a position where it was needed. But, it was
radar controlled.
Ron

Not quite, Ron. Say the B-58 is traveling at 1,000 MPH and has a tail
cannon with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 MPH. In relation to a ground
observer, if the cannon was fired just as it flew overhead of the
observer, the cannon shell would stop and free fall towards the observer
while the delivery aircraft flew away from the shell at 1,000 MPH
departure rate. But.... if a fighter was pursuing the B-58 at 1,000 MPH he
would fly into the cannon shell at a closure rate of 1,000 MPH.
BLOOOOey!!!! goes the fighter. Everything is relative!!!

"Ron Monroe" wrote in
thlink.net:

Ok, then dispute it with Jay Miller and every other article I have
ever read on the gun.
They said the gun was inefective. And remember, eeven with that
fighter closing in at 1000mph, the bullet is losing altitude. Probably
the only way the fighter would get hit is if it was in a dive. Another
thing, which they have proven with the SR-71, the closure rate isn't
too good if the chase aircraft isn't flying any faster than the
aircraft he is pursuing. Even if he was 100mph faster, by the time he
caught up, the plane would probably be over a friendly country. I
don't think they had too many aircraft that good intercept the B-58,
when the B-58 was flying.

Everytrhing is relative, but you have to look at it in the proper
perspective. BLOOEY!
Ron

Gravity acts on a bullet whether it is in forward flight or free fall. A
tailgunner would have to take into account leading his target for both
target motion and the effect of gravity on his rounds.

If anything, the realtive speeds of the pursuing fighter and the tail
gunners rounds would be slightly higher in the B-58 case hypothesized
here, since the rounds would not be slowed toward their target by drag as
they moved horizontally through the air, only the vertical acceleration
due to gravity would occur.

Mind-messingly fun to envision... =)

"Panic" wrote in message
...
"Ron Monroe" wrote in message
ink.net...
Didn't make any difference. The supersonic speed going forward
versus the bullet speed going backwards, meant that it was totally
eneffectual. Luckily, they never were in a position where it was
needed. But, it was radar controlled.
Ron

Not quite, Ron. Say the B-58 is traveling at 1,000 MPH and has a
tail cannon with a muzzle velocity of 1,000 MPH. In relation to a
ground observer, if the cannon was fired just as it flew overhead of
the observer, the cannon shell would stop and free fall towards the
observer while the delivery aircraft flew away from the shell at
1,000 MPH departure rate. But.... if a fighter was pursuing the B-58
at 1,000 MPH he would fly into the cannon shell at a closure rate of
1,000 MPH. BLOOOOey!!!! goes the fighter. Everything is
relative!!!