IMC without an autopilot

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:


Have we forgot aviate then navigate?


That's true, we haven't. So, if you can aviate and program a GPS box
single-pilot IFR without an autopilot, sooner or later you will have more balls
than you can juggle.

Not so in the "old days" of tuning a VOR and selecting a course.

Tarver Engineering wrote:


The 707 was one fast airplane.

I recall being the gear-person on a domestic fan on one nice, clear winter
night, going from JFK to LAX. We had to shut down an inboard engine over PIT,
because of an oil pressure problem. We descended to Fl 240, pushed the other
three up a bit, arrived at LAX early with the same burn had we been at 350 with
all four running.

wrote:

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:


Have we forgot aviate then navigate?



That's true, we haven't. So, if you can aviate and program a GPS box
single-pilot IFR without an autopilot, sooner or later you will have more balls
than you can juggle.

That is certainly possible, but it never happened to me in 6 years of
instrument flying in the northeast which has both traffic and weather.
The way to stay good at juggling is to juggle a lot. I just don't think
an autopilot contributes to proficiency and I'd really hate to be in a
situation where I NEEDED the autopilot in order to keep all the balls in
the air. If you get really busy, it isn't that hard to program most GPS
units one waypoint at a time much like a VOR. I like to have the full
route programmed, but that isn't essential to do if you are in a high
workload regime.


Not so in the "old days" of tuning a VOR and selecting a course.

I tuned the VORs even when using the GPS. Nice to have a couple of
information sources when in the clouds.


Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:

wrote:

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:


Have we forgot aviate then navigate?



That's true, we haven't. So, if you can aviate and program a GPS box
single-pilot IFR without an autopilot, sooner or later you will have more balls
than you can juggle.

That is certainly possible, but it never happened to me in 6 years of
instrument flying in the northeast which has both traffic and weather.
The way to stay good at juggling is to juggle a lot. I just don't think
an autopilot contributes to proficiency and I'd really hate to be in a
situation where I NEEDED the autopilot in order to keep all the balls in
the air.

The autopilot is a part of single-pilot CRM. It frees the pilot to work at a better
level of mental proficiency. If you're talking about manually flying the airplane
for attitude instrument control, that can and should be practice when the weather is
decent. Presuming the autopilot is properly maintained, the chances of it failing
are no greater than losing some other critical component of the system. That is what
being proficient in abnormal or emergency procedures is all about.

So, if you can aviate and program a GPS box
single-pilot IFR without an autopilot, sooner or later you will have more balls
than you can juggle.

Not so in the "old days" of tuning a VOR and selecting a course.


Hmm. Do "we" really think that setting up and interpreting a VOR (or ADF) is
easier than handling a moving map display? I STRONGLY disagree. A GPS requires
much fewer mental balls to juggle than two VORs and an ADF.

It's just newer technology, that's all.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Having logged a bit of actual time, I subscribe to his viewpoint.

I'm not persuaded, probably because after I got out of service, where
I had an AP, I flew a Cherokee without one for about 25 years, until
getting a Warrior that had one.

Yes, I was pretty damn busy at times, but only for short intervals.

However, after experiencing an AP failure in IMC while flying to Boston last year, I
certainly see the need to remain proficient at hand-flying. Balancing
these competing goals (hand flying versus the safety of AP flying) is a
challenge.

I would recommend minimal use of the AP if one wants to gain maximum
proficiency at flying the airplane on instruments. I don't see how one
can become proficient at anything by NOT doing it.

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" wrote in message
...
Having logged a bit of actual time, I subscribe to his viewpoint.

I would recommend minimal use of the AP if one wants to gain maximum
proficiency at flying the airplane on instruments. I don't see how one
can become proficient at anything by NOT doing it.


I guess those airline pilots must be really rusty, seeing how they fly on AP
from about liftoff until just about touchdown?

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote
I would recommend minimal use of the AP if one wants to gain maximum
proficiency at flying the airplane on instruments. I don't see how one
can become proficient at anything by NOT doing it.

I guess those airline pilots must be really rusty, seeing how they fly on AP
from about liftoff until just about touchdown?

A good friend of mine (who taught me to fly multi after I bought my
Twin Comanche) is a captain for the majors. According to him, this is
exactly true of those airline pilots who fly the way you describe. It
is not how he flies - even now that he's in the Airbus (which he hates
- the planes he likes are the DC-9 and 727) he still makes it a point
to hand-fly from takeoff until level in cruise and from FL180 to
touchdown. When he flew the 727, he would ONLY use the A/P in level
cruise. According to him, the guys who use the A/P all the time are
the same ones who barely squeak through the checkrides, make ****ty
approaches when they have to hand-fly, and can't wait to get into the
Airbus where they can stop flying.

My friend owned a Twin Comanche for years, flew it IFR extensively,
and never bothered to install an A/P. After he finished training me,
I flew night and IFR extensively - sometimes for hours at a time in
the soup - single pilot and with no A/P. I eventually installed one
when I got a good deal on a used one, and I use it a lot when in level
cruise, in VMC, to reduce fatigue on long trips and listen to my CD
player. I don't use it on short trips or in IMC. Fatigue isn't an
issue on short trips, and I like to fly. As for IMC, I don't get
enough as it is, so why would I share with the A/P? I always hand-fly
from takeoff until level and trimmed out in cruise, and then hand fly
from start of descent to touchdown.

In my opinion, anyone who can't handle a reroute or find and brief an
approach in IMC while hand-flying (meaning without A/P) has no
business flying IFR anyway.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...


In my opinion, anyone who can't handle a reroute or find and brief an
approach in IMC while hand-flying (meaning without A/P) has no
business flying IFR anyway.

And those who can't run a computer from the command line shouldn't be on
one. :~)

In article ,
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
om...


In my opinion, anyone who can't handle a reroute or find and brief an
approach in IMC while hand-flying (meaning without A/P) has no
business flying IFR anyway.

And those who can't run a computer from the command line shouldn't be on
one. :~)

Command line? What's that? I thought the way you ran a computer was
you put your deck of cards in the slot and waited for the greenbar
printout to appear in your mailbox.