President Bush is doing well.

Further posts from Michael Wise = "Plonk."

--
Mike Kanze

"Asking what a pilot thinks about the FAA is like asking a fireplug what it
thinks about dogs."

- from Bill "Windmill" Young


"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...
In article , "Bill Kambic"
wrote:

Michael Wise" wrote in message news:no-

How about answering the questions instead of cowardly hiding behind
red
herring arguments?

You're right. I am a complete moral coward and intellectually unfit to
joust with the likes of such as your.

I quit. You win.


Is that you're way of telling us you never intend on telling us who pays
for the city/county/state services used by illegal aliens?


--Mike

On 2/21/04 11:40 AM, in article
, "Krztalizer"
wrote:

Woody, by that rationale, we need to sortie our invasion forces immediately to
attack Iran and North Korea at a minimum. We know they have WMD, we know
they'll use them. Ergo, we go to war immediately, without anyone agreeing
with
us.


I didn't say we know that they *will* use them. I said that we know that
Iraq *has* used them. Saddam Hussein had already opened the Pandora's box
on that one. In addition during the 12 years of OSW, he made many threats
against American pilots, had his pilots fly into the NFZ, had his gunners
and SAM operators shooting at Americans and Brits patrolling the skies over
there (using SAM's and AAA placed south of the 33rd parallel in violation of
the demarkation order post-Gulf War).

Not to mention Ansar Al Islam's presence in northeastern Iraq and their
links to terrorism.

No matter how frustrating it is to deal with the UN, we either use them as the
'oversight committee' for the world, or we take on the role of Big Brother for
the rest of humanity. Given that we turned out to be wrong in this case, I
imagine it will only be one or two more such incidents before we have
sanctions
placed upon us, for the very reason that we put them on others.


Of course, I respectfully disagree. We're the USA not the United Nations of
America. If our interests are threatened and we have probable cause to take
military action, we should take it... I realize that we differ on what
constitutes that probable cause.

George Bush declared Saddam would be gone. Two presidential cycles later, his
son took power and completed his father's tasking; WMD was an excuse to give
his 'change of regime' plan some validity.


WMD was only ONE of the offenses in question. The press has picked it up as
the big ticket item because of their propensity to go Woodward and Bernstein
and emphasize controversy in every news story. Next time even your local
media presents a human interest piece look for the ... But... In the middle
of the story where the controversy is revealed.

There's no question really that Saddam HAD WMD and had USED WMD. As I
stated in the previous post the more appropriate questions are where did it
go and when did it go?

As for the well-known and often mentioned chem attack on the Kurdish village -
the CIA released information that the chemicals used did not match the
fingerprint of Iraqi stocks, but did match the gas in Iranian inventory. But
since that CIA report two, three years ago, it seems to have been forgotten
and
Saddam gets the blame. Did he use agents in combat? With surity - but not in
that case that seems to be ritually used to prove Bush's case against him.

I think if Bush had come right out and said, "This turd needs to get flushed
but instead of using a flimsy excuse that 80% of the world will not agree
with,
I am going to finish the job my dad started," folks would have had less
trouble
with his decision to unilaterally invade another country.

v/r
Gordon

I can empathize, but I think that President Bush did, in effect, say that he
was flushin' the turd. Secretary Powell's pre-war presentation to the UN
made precisely the point that Hussein's conduct as well as the potential
possession of WMD was under fire.

I'm behind the Commander in Chief, the Senate, and the Congress on their
decision to go to war in this case. And as I said before--even if we were
incorrect about WMD, there were numerous other good reasons for invading
Iraq--many of which relate to the reasons that we went into the Balkans
under President Clinton.

Thanks for the discussion. We can agree to disagree, but frankly, I'm
terminating. I'd rather discuss Naval Aviation instead of this OT politics
stuff.

--Woody

Bill- No, not at all. Yet there are about 10-12 million of them. Or, as
Lenin
once put it, "Quantity is a quality of its own." BRBR

Sure, but we need to start somewhere. Our orders have become so easy to walk
through, that many 'non-spanish speaking individuals' are coming in. Those use
arab languages as their native tongue.

Bill The only reason they are "illegal" is because a statute or regulation
makes
them so. Crossing an artificial line is not a crime "malum in se." IMO
most of the these statutes and regulations are nothing more than an
expression of hostility towards little, brown men who don't speak English.
BRBR

They are illegal none the less. If you don't like the law, work to change it,
don't ignore it.

As for your racist undertones, that is pure BS.

Bill If our southern neighbor were Sweden or Germany and the illegals all
looked
like Anita Ekberg or Ursula Andress (or maybe Rutger Hauer) then I don't
think we would be having this discussion. BRBR

Try not to put words in my mouth..I dislike Canadians or French or 'put
nationality here' coming into MY country illegally.

If you want to paint this discussion as some sort of profiling statement about
white males, go elsewhere.

Bill- Ever try to hire agricultural labor? I have offered as much as $15/hr.
cash
and had no takers for such tasks as bucking hay, weedeating fencelines,
mucking stalls, etc. I can make a quick trip over to Lenoir City and hire a
crew for an 8 hour day at $50/head. And those sons of bitches will work
their butts off for that $50 (where if I hire 'Mericans I will have to do
constant "over the shoulder" supervision). BRBR

Well, do you turn a blind eye for anybody with a warrant out for them, for say
shoplifting? Pretty minor but he is 'busting his ass for you'. I see that you
are part of the problem, don't care about any solution as long as you get your
hay 'bucked'.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Do you like it when the children of these 'campos' end up in YOUR school
system, not being able to speak english?

To teach them, extraordinary things must be done, that has a HUGE effect on
your legal son's or daugther's education.

Same for a trip to the emergency department, where here in Boulder, about 55%
of those that come there don't speak english and don't intend to pay for these
services. I pay for them, and I don't like it.

Once again, if you don't like the 'law', then work to change it, Don't ignore
it. That is pandering to anybody who is willing to work to save you money, not
some pholosophical arguemant about racism or such.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Bill- If you were a Naval Aviator then I would bet that in your career you
made
one or more choices to violate some regulation 'cause in your view at the
time it was a Good Thing to do. BRBR

Don't speak for me sir. I see that you weren't really in the USN anyway, but
part of the JAG..Where 'interpretation of the law' is an art form.

bill I only point out this wrong is determined by the
vagarities of time time and place, not some external code of morality. This
concept clearly escapes you. BRBR

The consept that seems to escape you, that being undocumented in the US is
illegal. As a part time prosecutor, what other laws do you choose to ignore
because you don't agree with them?

If somebody was being prosecuted for being undocumented , would you remove
yourself from the case?

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

You're right. I am a complete moral coward and intellectually unfit to
joust with the likes of such as your. BRBR

I think the local Bar association needs to have a look at you, since you know
where other felons do their trade(like hit men and drug dealers)but don't want
to get your hands dirty.

But I guess that you see other minor infractions, like possession of grass,
something that deserves to have a blind eye turned towards it, while we are
putting words into each others mouths and ignoring the law.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Thanks for the discussion. We can agree to disagree, but frankly, I'm
terminating. I'd rather discuss Naval Aviation instead of this OT politics
stuff.

Sounds good to me. Now, back to the hook-skippin' tales of glory

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

"Pechs1" wrote in message

Bill- If you were a Naval Aviator then I would bet that in your career
you
made
one or more choices to violate some regulation 'cause in your view at the
time it was a Good Thing to do. BRBR

Don't speak for me sir.

Then don't presume to speak for me on my views on schools, drug usage, or
anything else.

Sauce for gander, don't you know.

But I'll stand by my bet.

I see that you weren't really in the USN anyway, but
part of the JAG..Where 'interpretation of the law' is an art form.

Well, on this one you are flat, dead wrong. I have written before that I
was VS/VP/VT. I am an Honorary Member of the JAG Corps. (got the plaque to
prove it) and am proud to be so.


bill I only point out this wrong is determined by the
vagarities of time time and place, not some external code of morality.
This
concept clearly escapes you. BRBR

The consept that seems to escape you, that being undocumented in the US is
illegal. As a part time prosecutor, what other laws do you choose to
ignore
because you don't agree with them?

I follow the letter of the law and the guidelines of the District Attorney
General.

If somebody was being prosecuted for being undocumented , would you remove
yourself from the case?

I don't do that sort of work so the question is moot.

Bill Kambic

CDR, USNR (Ret)
VS/VP/VT Active and Reserve

If, by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

Bill- Then don't presume to speak for me on my views on schools, drug usage,
or
anything else. BRBR

I see that you ignore the law to suit your own personal view of it. Not
surprising for an attorney. Many seem to have precious little supply of ethics.




P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer