"Requesting lower"

So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

I figure something like this: If I go downhill at 200 feet a minute at
my cruising speed it's going to take 5 minutes a thousand feet or 50
minutes to get to pattern altitude. "Hey Center, Mooney XYZ requesting
lower -- can you give me cruise at 5000?"

If they say yes I'll back off the throttle, the airplane is already
trimmed for the right speed, and start down. Close to 5000 feet I'll
ask for lower and continue down, maintaining my en route cruise. I'd
for sure be managing airpseed, CHT, mixture, and so forth -- I look at
those things every time the altimeter unwinds another 500 feet.

What would you do?

Tony wrote:
So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

I figure something like this: If I go downhill at 200 feet a minute at
my cruising speed it's going to take 5 minutes a thousand feet or 50
minutes to get to pattern altitude. "Hey Center, Mooney XYZ requesting
lower -- can you give me cruise at 5000?"

If they say yes I'll back off the throttle, the airplane is already
trimmed for the right speed, and start down. Close to 5000 feet I'll
ask for lower and continue down, maintaining my en route cruise. I'd
for sure be managing airpseed, CHT, mixture, and so forth -- I look at
those things every time the altimeter unwinds another 500 feet.

What would you do?

I believe you will also have to tell them your going to descend at 200
FPM as they expect a higher rate. I'm betting they will allow it but
best to let them know. I know you have to tell them if you can't climb
at 500 FPM and I think they expect the same on descent.

In article .com,
"Tony" wrote:

So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

How about, "Cancel IFR"?

In article Zbqrh.14754$Ch1.9592@trndny04,
John Theune wrote:

Tony wrote:
So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

I figure something like this: If I go downhill at 200 feet a minute at
my cruising speed it's going to take 5 minutes a thousand feet or 50
minutes to get to pattern altitude. "Hey Center, Mooney XYZ requesting
lower -- can you give me cruise at 5000?"

If they say yes I'll back off the throttle, the airplane is already
trimmed for the right speed, and start down. Close to 5000 feet I'll
ask for lower and continue down, maintaining my en route cruise. I'd
for sure be managing airpseed, CHT, mixture, and so forth -- I look at
those things every time the altimeter unwinds another 500 feet.

What would you do?

I believe you will also have to tell them your going to descend at 200
FPM as they expect a higher rate. I'm betting they will allow it but
best to let them know. I know you have to tell them if you can't climb
at 500 FPM and I think they expect the same on descent.

If there really is nothing going on, they probably don't care how fast or
slow you go down. But, to be more correct about it, you could ask for
"pilot's discretion down to 3000" or whatever.

I ask for PD when I'm on top of a broken layer where I suspect there's ice
in the clouds. PD gives me the freedom to pick the hole I like and dive
through it.

If you get "cruise at" from center, it's up to you how you get there. I
do agree with those who say other than that center expects standard
rates from pilots.

On Jan 17, 9:15 am, John Theune wrote:
Tony wrote:
So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

I figure something like this: If I go downhill at 200 feet a minute at
my cruising speed it's going to take 5 minutes a thousand feet or 50
minutes to get to pattern altitude. "Hey Center, Mooney XYZ requesting
lower -- can you give me cruise at 5000?"

If they say yes I'll back off the throttle, the airplane is already
trimmed for the right speed, and start down. Close to 5000 feet I'll
ask for lower and continue down, maintaining my en route cruise. I'd
for sure be managing airpseed, CHT, mixture, and so forth -- I look at
those things every time the altimeter unwinds another 500 feet.

What would you do?I believe you will also have to tell them your going to descend at 200
FPM as they expect a higher rate. I'm betting they will allow it but
best to let them know. I know you have to tell them if you can't climb
at 500 FPM and I think they expect the same on descent.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

Tony,

What would you do?


Same, expect for the "reduce power" part. Why not get some of the time
back that you lost during climb?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On 17 Jan 2007 06:09:06 -0800, "Tony" wrote:

So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

I figure something like this: If I go downhill at 200 feet a minute at
my cruising speed it's going to take 5 minutes a thousand feet or 50
minutes to get to pattern altitude. "Hey Center, Mooney XYZ requesting
lower -- can you give me cruise at 5000?"

If they say yes I'll back off the throttle, the airplane is already
trimmed for the right speed, and start down. Close to 5000 feet I'll
ask for lower and continue down, maintaining my en route cruise. I'd
for sure be managing airpseed, CHT, mixture, and so forth -- I look at
those things every time the altimeter unwinds another 500 feet.

What would you do?

In my Cherokee, even at 10k+ AGL I never begin descents until 40/50
miles out. The Cherokee has enough drag that coming down is not an
issue. Typically if I am at 10k+ feet, that is because there is a
tailwind. Up high, the tailwind and calm ride usually provide an
equivalent (or better) groundspeed than the higher airspeed +
decreasing tailwind during a descent.

Also, If it was night, and unfamilar area, I would stay IFR at
altitude, and allow ATC to provide vectors to fly the IAP.

To answer your question: If I wanted a lengthy descent I would do one
of two things:

1. Cancel IFR, and ask to stay on the code for flight following.
2. "Center, Cherokee XYZ requests a 200fpm descent to 3000".
I do not know the FAR, but we are supposed to notify ATC if we cannot
climb or desend at 500fpm or greater.

-Nathan

Tony wrote:
So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

Your first mistake is to say you're flying a Mooney in your post but
then say your're only doing 120 knots GS. Maybe a super headwind???
That's actually not a trivial question. The answer seen to be that its
controller specific. Certainly if you are IFR you just says "Mooney 94v
would like to start down", or "Mooney 94v, can we get lower" (sometimes
you don't actually know the altitude they can drop you to since that
close to the airport you are often on vectors.) The same if you are in
class B or C.

However, if you are just VFR in class E the answer is "it depends". If
you tell them your going lower about 60% of controllers will say
"You're VFR, why are you telling me this?". If you don't say anything
about 30% will say "please let me know if you are decending". Of course
sometimes you can tell if they are trying to squeeze you into a slot,
but othertimes it just seems to be the controller. This has often
irritated me but VFR procedures are probably at the bottom of the FAA's
list.

-Robert, CFII

Roy Smith wrote:
In article .com,
"Tony" wrote:

So here's the deal. You're at 11,000 feet doing say 120 knots over the
ground and your sea level destination is 100 nm ahead. It's late, ATC
is quiet, very little traffic, CAVU, you're pretty sure centger will
give you whatever you ask for.

What would you ask for?

How about, "Cancel IFR"?

Cancel IFR 100nm out? At 120 knots that's almost an hour outside your
destination.

-Robert

Roy Smith wrote:
If there really is nothing going on, they probably don't care how fast or
slow you go down. But, to be more correct about it, you could ask for
"pilot's discretion down to 3000" or whatever.


I like this answer better than any of the others. I'd be very reluctant to
cancel IFR at night 100 miles from my destination. He's already said it's quiet
so there's no reason to expect Center to run him all over the countryside.

Once I had the clearance, I'd nose over to get the descent rate and then manage
the throttle as required to keep power setting appropriate. A 200 fpm descent
is unlikely to put me near airspeed redline at cruise power but I would come off
the power if I started getting into turbulence down lower.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com