Legality of a flight

Consider this scenario; Using FAA (USA) regulations.

A passenger wins a raffle prize or makes a donation to a charity, school
fund-raiser etc to win something. The winning item is an airplane
ride. The airplane ride is flown by a private pilot, who pays the
expense for the plane (rental, fuel, or time in her own plane). The
plane only lands at the same airport as it departs. In other words, the
passenger paid money, with the expectation of an airplane ride, although
the money isn't spent on the plane or pilot. Is this legal?

Change the scenario to the pilot has a commercial rating. Does this
change the answer to the question?

Finally, if the airplane ride is to a destination at another airport and
then returning (after a few hours, overnight, weekend etc.) How does
this change the answers?

"John" wrote in message ...
A passenger wins a raffle prize or makes a donation to a charity, school
fund-raiser etc to win something. The winning item is an airplane
ride. [...] In other words, the
passenger paid money, with the expectation of an airplane ride, although
the money isn't spent on the plane or pilot. Is this legal?

Yes.

Change the scenario to the pilot has a commercial rating. Does this
change the answer to the question?

No.

Finally, if the airplane ride is to a destination at another airport and
then returning (after a few hours, overnight, weekend etc.) How does
this change the answers?

As far as I know, it doesn't. The key to the flight is the charitable
donation aspect, and I don't recall seeing any exclusion with respect to the
exact nature of the flight.

I have heard differing opinions from people with respect to whether their
local FSDO requires a drug test for such donations, but that's the only
complication I'm aware of.

Pete

Can't speak for the USA, but in Canada it would be legal.



--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE




In article , John wrote:

Consider this scenario; Using FAA (USA) regulations.

A passenger wins a raffle prize or makes a donation to a charity, school
fund-raiser etc to win something. The winning item is an airplane
ride. The airplane ride is flown by a private pilot, who pays the
expense for the plane (rental, fuel, or time in her own plane). The
plane only lands at the same airport as it departs. In other words, the
passenger paid money, with the expectation of an airplane ride, although
the money isn't spent on the plane or pilot. Is this legal?

Change the scenario to the pilot has a commercial rating. Does this
change the answer to the question?

Finally, if the airplane ride is to a destination at another airport and
then returning (after a few hours, overnight, weekend etc.) How does
this change the answers?

The way I read the FARs, the private pilot needs to have 200 hours unless he
has a commercial rating. In addition, you need to go thru the AOPA waver to
avoid having to take the drug test. Finally, you have to land at the
originating airport and can't fly more than 25 miles from the originating
airport unless the aircraft is being operated by a 121 or 135 carrier.

Personally, I haven't done this yet, so it would be worth doing your own
detailed investigation of the FARs.

Mike Schumann

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"John" wrote in message
...
A passenger wins a raffle prize or makes a donation to a charity, school
fund-raiser etc to win something. The winning item is an airplane
ride. [...] In other words, the
passenger paid money, with the expectation of an airplane ride, although
the money isn't spent on the plane or pilot. Is this legal?

Yes.

Change the scenario to the pilot has a commercial rating. Does this
change the answer to the question?

No.

Finally, if the airplane ride is to a destination at another airport and
then returning (after a few hours, overnight, weekend etc.) How does
this change the answers?

As far as I know, it doesn't. The key to the flight is the charitable
donation aspect, and I don't recall seeing any exclusion with respect to
the exact nature of the flight.

I have heard differing opinions from people with respect to whether their
local FSDO requires a drug test for such donations, but that's the only
complication I'm aware of.

Pete

You need to file the proper charity flight notification with the FAA
and meet the FAR requirements for charity flight (200 hrs, etc). Also,
you will need to use the AOPA drug test exemption. I've done this and
it worked out well. Being commercial means you don't need to notify the
FDSO ahead of time.

-Robert

John wrote:
Consider this scenario; Using FAA (USA) regulations.

A passenger wins a raffle prize or makes a donation to a charity, school
fund-raiser etc to win something. The winning item is an airplane
ride. The airplane ride is flown by a private pilot, who pays the
expense for the plane (rental, fuel, or time in her own plane). The
plane only lands at the same airport as it departs. In other words, the
passenger paid money, with the expectation of an airplane ride, although
the money isn't spent on the plane or pilot. Is this legal?

No, unless the flight complies with FAR 61.113(d).

Change the scenario to the pilot has a commercial rating. Does this
change the answer to the question?

It's not legal unless it complies with either 61.113(d) or the
following list: 135.249, 135.251, 135.253, 135.255, and 135.353 (per
135(1)(a)(5)).

Finally, if the airplane ride is to a destination at another airport and
then returning (after a few hours, overnight, weekend etc.) How does
this change the answers?

It's not legal unless it complies with either 61.113(d) or the entirety
of Part 119 and any applicable parts of parts 121, 125, or 135.

John wrote:

Consider this scenario; Using FAA (USA) regulations.

as far as I understand it, yes it is legal, however:

The pilots must be at least a private pilot (not recreational or sport);
61.101(e)(13) and 61.315(c)(10)

Other than that relevant regs is 61.113(d) providing that -- I
summarize some key points, but refer to the regs -- the sponsor,
i.e., charitable organization, notifies the local FSDO at least
7 days ahead of time and in doing so provides some documentation
which includes the credentials of the pilots involved; if
the pilots are private pilots, they must have at least 200 hours
of *flight time* (I don't see anywhere that it has to be PIC nor
that said flight time has to be all in same category/class). The
flights have to be day VFR, no acro, no formation flights...

Now a commercial pilots would necessarily meet these requirements.
As for the other questions however, i.e., flight to another
destination, overnight stay, etc. I don't see it described as
an exception of part 119.1(e)... but, folks who fly Angel
Flights do that routinely, so how does it work? what are the
chapter and verses that apply? or do they operate under specific
Letter of Agreement (or whatever other waiver?)

Note that since you will have to talk to the FSDO anyway, you
might as well as them the question, in addition of course to
asking these nice folks from AOPA,

--Sylvain

Brien K. Meehan wrote:

135(1)(a)(5)).

yep, but these concern flight for compensation or for hire; does it
apply to such operations? note that I am not saying you are wrong,
just wondering.

--Sylvain

but, folks who fly Angel Flights do that routinely, so how does it work?

Angel Flight is specially recognized by the FAA. It operates almost as
an exempt 135 operation. The FAA has tried to kill it a couple of times
but politics won't let it happen. After 9/11 when only part 135 could
go VFR, Angel Flight was flying VFR too. A couple high profile
accidents and it would probably gone quickly though.

-Robert

All true, but there is no specific "Angel Flight" exemption. Our
flights are purely part91 flights with no "compensation" going to
either the pilot or the organization in return for the flight (neither
the patient nor the hospital is ever billed a dime). The FAA has said
that they would not count any "charitable tax deduction" claimed by the
pilot as "compensation" - but that is a "commercial" issue and not
relevant to the legality of the flight itself.

There is work still going on to allow groups or individuals to
"sponsor" a flight. This would, for example, cover a bunch of company
employees that want to put something towards a co-worker getting to
treatment. They can do that now, but it's not specific to that
individual flight. That (and even letting them help pay for the gas
for a flight) are being worked, but not definitized yet. [Sort of a
"share the costs" which is already allowed, but the others sharing are
not the passenger.]

The original question here has come up before, and not with a perfect
answer (i.e. you get as many answers as FSDO's you call and ask).
Clearly a charity fund-raising flight day has specific rules (advanced
notification, testing, etc.). This is the "Come to the airport on
Saturday... airplane rides for sale all day... all money going to XXX
charity." type of thing.

But this case (original poster) is more the "I'll let you auction off a
ride in my airplane as part of your fund raising activities, and I'll
give whoever wins a ride sometime later." Frankly, usually it's just
"done" and no one really cares if so and so gets an hour of sight
seeing from the air. I do suspect that it would be looked at much
differently if you were to offer "a trip from LA to SF to the highest
bidder." There you are clearly providing air transport rather than
just a sight seeing trip.