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Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 14th 07, 02:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
gwengler
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Posts: 49
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

On Jun 14, 4:58 am, Thomas Borchert
wrote:
Dan,

Yep. That roomy interior is one of the best things about a Cirrus.


Try a Socata TB...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


Cabin width:
Socata TB: 50"
Cirrus SR20: 49"
Cessna 182: 42"

Gerd

  #22  
Old June 14th 07, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
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Posts: 1,749
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

Gwengler,

Cabin width:
Socata TB: 50"
Cirrus SR20: 49"
Cessna 182: 42"


Yup ;-)

That's why I fly one (among other reasons).

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #23  
Old June 14th 07, 03:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gig 601XL Builder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,317
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

gwengler wrote:
On Jun 14, 4:58 am, Thomas Borchert
wrote:
Dan,

Yep. That roomy interior is one of the best things about a Cirrus.


Try a Socata TB...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)


Cabin width:
Socata TB: 50"
Cirrus SR20: 49"
Cessna 182: 42"

Gerd


I never thought about it but the 182 is 2" more narrow than the little 601XL
I'm building.


  #24  
Old June 14th 07, 03:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 77
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

Mark, just a thought: at 50 hours a year you've not getting lots of
PIC time, so opt for slower and more durable. I'd suggest the 182 is
more than enough airplane for your needs, and those big flaps make
slightly out of wack approaches and the like easy to correct. I'd
rather share the sky with a pilot whose skills far exceed the
airplane's demands.





On Jun 11, 11:16 pm, "Marc CYBW"
wrote:
I am a fractional owner of a pair of very nice Skylanes at Springbank
airport in Calgary (CYBW) and fly here and there, mostly just around Alberta
but occasionally on vacation - usually over the mountains to the wet
coast -(i.e. Vancouver island) - about 50 hrs /yr. Great operation. Great
service. Almost always a plane available. Planning on Oshkosh next year.

The Skylanes are about 7 old and the operation wants to upgrade to SR20's.
Double the investment, substantial increase in monthly and hourly costs.
Plus I'll have to train to upgrade to glass panels (8 hrs). Currently have
210 hrs. VFR OTT. Most of night rating. No intention of getting IFR rating.

No other fractional operation around so it's SR20 or back to the beaters
(182 or Arrow) at the flying club.

Recommendations anyone?

Thanks,
Marc

--



  #25  
Old June 18th 07, 01:54 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Roger (K8RI)
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Posts: 727
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:45:15 GMT, "Marc CYBW"
wrote:

Hi group,

Good arguments for skipping the SR20 so far, but......

..... one of the other fractional owners in our group looked at the
possibility of a few of us buying one of the 182s (as opposed to the club
rental beater) and suggested the following reasons for upgrading:

- the big red handle on the SR20
- the fun and challenge of flying a technologically current plane
- the flexibility of availability of 16 people in 2 planes vs. (say) 6 in
one plane (the 182 shared among 6)
- the upcoming engine overhaul on the 182
- laying off the risk of repairs, etc on the fractional operator
- the red carpet treatment of fractional ownership (scheduling, ramp
service, etc.)
- the big red handle (did I mention that?)
- the fun of a new airplane (did I mention that)
- the O2 system for mountain flying
- the big red handle when you're over the Rockies at 15,000 ft.(did I
mention that)
- the hassles of setting up a limited corporation to (maybe) limit our
liability

So, for an increase of about 50% in cost for a 50 hr year, he suggests we
go for it.


50%?

Around here it'd be 300 to 500% when the entire cost of the fractional
ownership is taken into account. Just the hourly rates are well over
double that of a 182 unless you are talking a 182 RG. Add to that a
very large chunk of change for buying in plus the tremendous amount of
training you will need from Cirrus to maintain currency.


Seems logical so far.

Comments?

Marc

  #26  
Old June 18th 07, 09:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Marty Shapiro
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Posts: 287
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:45:15 GMT, "Marc CYBW"
wrote:

Hi group,

Good arguments for skipping the SR20 so far, but......

..... one of the other fractional owners in our group looked at the
possibility of a few of us buying one of the 182s (as opposed to the
club rental beater) and suggested the following reasons for upgrading:

- the big red handle on the SR20
- the fun and challenge of flying a technologically current plane
- the flexibility of availability of 16 people in 2 planes vs. (say) 6
in one plane (the 182 shared among 6)
- the upcoming engine overhaul on the 182
- laying off the risk of repairs, etc on the fractional operator
- the red carpet treatment of fractional ownership (scheduling, ramp
service, etc.)
- the big red handle (did I mention that?)
- the fun of a new airplane (did I mention that)
- the O2 system for mountain flying
- the big red handle when you're over the Rockies at 15,000 ft.(did I
mention that)
- the hassles of setting up a limited corporation to (maybe) limit our
liability

So, for an increase of about 50% in cost for a 50 hr year, he suggests
we go for it.


50%?

Around here it'd be 300 to 500% when the entire cost of the fractional
ownership is taken into account. Just the hourly rates are well over
double that of a 182 unless you are talking a 182 RG. Add to that a
very large chunk of change for buying in plus the tremendous amount of
training you will need from Cirrus to maintain currency.


Seems logical so far.

Comments?

Marc



I built a spread sheet several years ago when the fractional owerships
were offering a new C-182 and compared it with a rental Piper Arrow 200.
Using 0% for the lost opportunity cost of the down payment, it still took
200 hours/year before the fractional ownership was only 50% more than the
rental cost. At 5% interest for the opportunity cost of the down payment,
I would have needed 250 hours to have the fractional ownership only be 50%
more than renting.

I then did the comparison between the fractional C-182 and used double
the Arrow 200 rate to guess at the rental rate for a C-210. At that point,
with 5% interest rate, the break even was 150 hours. At 50 hours, the
fractional C-182 was 20% more than 50 hours rental for the C-210.

If someone has the buy-in, monthly charges, and hourly costs for the
various plans (silver, gold, platinum) for a fractional SR-20 or SR-22 and
the currently rental rate for a C-210 or C-182 + monthly flying club
membership, I'll see if I can find my old spread sheet and plug current
numbers in. I'll use current 10-year t-note yeild for the interest rate on
the opportunity cost of money.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)
  #27  
Old June 19th 07, 03:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,754
Default Should I upgrade from Skylane to Cirrus SR20?

"Marty Shapiro" wrote in message
...
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in
:

On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:45:15 GMT, "Marc CYBW"
wrote:

Hi group,

Good arguments for skipping the SR20 so far, but......

..... one of the other fractional owners in our group looked at the
possibility of a few of us buying one of the 182s (as opposed to the
club rental beater) and suggested the following reasons for upgrading:

- the big red handle on the SR20
- the fun and challenge of flying a technologically current plane
- the flexibility of availability of 16 people in 2 planes vs. (say) 6
in one plane (the 182 shared among 6)
- the upcoming engine overhaul on the 182
- laying off the risk of repairs, etc on the fractional operator
- the red carpet treatment of fractional ownership (scheduling, ramp
service, etc.)
- the big red handle (did I mention that?)
- the fun of a new airplane (did I mention that)
- the O2 system for mountain flying
- the big red handle when you're over the Rockies at 15,000 ft.(did I
mention that)
- the hassles of setting up a limited corporation to (maybe) limit our
liability

So, for an increase of about 50% in cost for a 50 hr year, he suggests
we go for it.


50%?

Around here it'd be 300 to 500% when the entire cost of the fractional
ownership is taken into account. Just the hourly rates are well over
double that of a 182 unless you are talking a 182 RG. Add to that a
very large chunk of change for buying in plus the tremendous amount of
training you will need from Cirrus to maintain currency.


Seems logical so far.

Comments?

Marc



I built a spread sheet several years ago when the fractional owerships
were offering a new C-182 and compared it with a rental Piper Arrow 200.
Using 0% for the lost opportunity cost of the down payment, it still took
200 hours/year before the fractional ownership was only 50% more than the
rental cost. At 5% interest for the opportunity cost of the down payment,
I would have needed 250 hours to have the fractional ownership only be 50%
more than renting.

I then did the comparison between the fractional C-182 and used double
the Arrow 200 rate to guess at the rental rate for a C-210. At that

point,
with 5% interest rate, the break even was 150 hours. At 50 hours, the
fractional C-182 was 20% more than 50 hours rental for the C-210.

If someone has the buy-in, monthly charges, and hourly costs for the
various plans (silver, gold, platinum) for a fractional SR-20 or SR-22 and
the currently rental rate for a C-210 or C-182 + monthly flying club
membership, I'll see if I can find my old spread sheet and plug current
numbers in. I'll use current 10-year t-note yeild for the interest rate

on
the opportunity cost of money.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)


I don't have the numbers, but I expect the result to be an interesting read.

BTW, it might also be interesting to plug in the cost of the Skylane with a
BRS kit added. Personally I think that it is silly, but if someone simply
must have that feature (which I find analogous to Linus' Blanket in the
"Peanuts" comic strip) then the addition to an aircraft that demonstrated
recovery from a 1/2 turn spin entry would seem preferable.

Peter


 




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