I just have to get it off my chest.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:21:13 GMT, Dave wrote:

Clairbear wrote:

Gee 1227K for xnews I might have to remove it
and it reads yenc, speeds up access,rejoins multi part posts, and allows
me
to access all header on ng
You might be right I guess I'll just have to go back to the
inconvenience
of using OE to access the usenet.


I think that things should be as simple as possible.
There are quite a few people who don't know how to setup new programs,
like my 85 year old father, but he likes this newsgroup.
He worked for Curtis back in the 30's and 40's in their experimental
aircraft group in Buffalo.

I vote for keeping it as simple and direct as possible so everybody can
enjoy these great photos of beautiful and unique aircraft.
Just my two cents.

Um, Dave, just how hard is it for *anyone* to double-click on an
install program? Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Virtually every person I've ever seen complain about yEnc is an
Outlook Express user. That is, they use one of the worst pieces of
junk ever released by MicroSoft that contains an absurd number of
security holes. It is, I might add, just an email program with
newsgroup reading tacked on.

You might as well use a truck to pull a plow. It would work, but it
wouldn't be very effective.

This argument falls into the same category of people who complain that
they don't want to deal with those bloody VHS players, since there's
nothing wrong with their Betamax.

If you really want simple and direct, we could go back to text-only
usenet, accessed via command-line programs, transmitting cute
ASCII-art pics of airplanes. Better yet, go real old-school, and use
the US Post Office. Just photocopy those shots and physically mail
them to folks. It can't get much simpler than that, and -hey-
absolutely no software is involved!

Let's be honest: this argument has virtually always been driven by
Outlook Express users who refuse to part from their bedraggled
teddy-bear of a program. Why not 'fess up about it?

On the other hand, it depends on how the poster uploads their images.
If they do so by hand (which is possible via newsreader) the uploader
can configure the program not to use yEnc. I use Agent 1.91 (hate the
3.x, they trashed the interface) and I've disabled yEnc manually for
my uploads. If anyone wants direction on how to do that for Agent,
email me or ask here.

But if I have a large number of images, I need something like Power
Post v11b, and I can't disable the yEnc encoding. It's hard-wired into
the code. I personally would have no trouble in turning off yEnc, if
that option existed. Maybe if we all wrote the author - assert at
powerpost dot cjb dot net- he would release a new version?



Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp

Agreed though I do not use OE I use Thunderbird and still YENC is a
source of trouble

Dont like being placed into a group just because I hate YENC


Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp

Casey Tompkins wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:21:13 GMT, Dave wrote:

Clairbear wrote:

Gee 1227K for xnews I might have to remove it
and it reads yenc, speeds up access,rejoins multi part posts, and allows me
to access all header on ng
You might be right I guess I'll just have to go back to the inconvenience
of using OE to access the usenet.


I think that things should be as simple as possible.
There are quite a few people who don't know how to setup new programs,
like my 85 year old father, but he likes this newsgroup.
He worked for Curtis back in the 30's and 40's in their experimental
aircraft group in Buffalo.

I vote for keeping it as simple and direct as possible so everybody can
enjoy these great photos of beautiful and unique aircraft.
Just my two cents.

Um, Dave, just how hard is it for *anyone* to double-click on an
install program? Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Virtually every person I've ever seen complain about yEnc is an
Outlook Express user. That is, they use one of the worst pieces of
junk ever released by MicroSoft that contains an absurd number of
security holes. It is, I might add, just an email program with
newsgroup reading tacked on.

You might as well use a truck to pull a plow. It would work, but it
wouldn't be very effective.

This argument falls into the same category of people who complain that
they don't want to deal with those bloody VHS players, since there's
nothing wrong with their Betamax.

If you really want simple and direct, we could go back to text-only
usenet, accessed via command-line programs, transmitting cute
ASCII-art pics of airplanes. Better yet, go real old-school, and use
the US Post Office. Just photocopy those shots and physically mail
them to folks. It can't get much simpler than that, and -hey-
absolutely no software is involved!

Let's be honest: this argument has virtually always been driven by
Outlook Express users who refuse to part from their bedraggled
teddy-bear of a program. Why not 'fess up about it?

On the other hand, it depends on how the poster uploads their images.
If they do so by hand (which is possible via newsreader) the uploader
can configure the program not to use yEnc. I use Agent 1.91 (hate the
3.x, they trashed the interface) and I've disabled yEnc manually for
my uploads. If anyone wants direction on how to do that for Agent,
email me or ask here.

But if I have a large number of images, I need something like Power
Post v11b, and I can't disable the yEnc encoding. It's hard-wired into
the code. I personally would have no trouble in turning off yEnc, if
that option existed. Maybe if we all wrote the author - assert at
powerpost dot cjb dot net- he would release a new version?


I agree and a FREE newsreader is easy to install. I use XNews and it
does it all.
This back and forth over YEnc is stupid. If you can't decode it, pass on
it. Simple.
JRW

Maple1 wrote:
Agreed though I do not use OE I use Thunderbird and still YENC is a
source of trouble

Dont like being placed into a group just because I hate YENC


Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered
question: What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course
decode yEnc without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the
years that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp





I use T-Bird also. Great program. I think in the future it will have a
add-on to decode YEnc, if not now. I just haven't looked at the add-ons
lately.
I was once anti YEnc until someone told me about XNews. Free and easy to
use. Seconds to open.
Let's face it, we don't open everything unless it perks our interest.
Let's stop this silly thread and press on.

JMHO,
JRW

"JRW" wrote in message
...
Casey Tompkins wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:21:13 GMT, Dave wrote:

Clairbear wrote:

Gee 1227K for xnews I might have to remove it
and it reads yenc, speeds up access,rejoins multi part posts, and
allows me
to access all header on ng
You might be right I guess I'll just have to go back to the
inconvenience
of using OE to access the usenet.


I think that things should be as simple as possible.
There are quite a few people who don't know how to setup new programs,
like my 85 year old father, but he likes this newsgroup.
He worked for Curtis back in the 30's and 40's in their experimental
aircraft group in Buffalo.

I vote for keeping it as simple and direct as possible so everybody can
enjoy these great photos of beautiful and unique aircraft.
Just my two cents.

Um, Dave, just how hard is it for *anyone* to double-click on an
install program? Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Virtually every person I've ever seen complain about yEnc is an
Outlook Express user. That is, they use one of the worst pieces of
junk ever released by MicroSoft that contains an absurd number of
security holes. It is, I might add, just an email program with
newsgroup reading tacked on.

You might as well use a truck to pull a plow. It would work, but it
wouldn't be very effective.

This argument falls into the same category of people who complain that
they don't want to deal with those bloody VHS players, since there's
nothing wrong with their Betamax.

If you really want simple and direct, we could go back to text-only
usenet, accessed via command-line programs, transmitting cute
ASCII-art pics of airplanes. Better yet, go real old-school, and use
the US Post Office. Just photocopy those shots and physically mail
them to folks. It can't get much simpler than that, and -hey-
absolutely no software is involved!

Let's be honest: this argument has virtually always been driven by
Outlook Express users who refuse to part from their bedraggled
teddy-bear of a program. Why not 'fess up about it?

On the other hand, it depends on how the poster uploads their images.
If they do so by hand (which is possible via newsreader) the uploader
can configure the program not to use yEnc. I use Agent 1.91 (hate the
3.x, they trashed the interface) and I've disabled yEnc manually for
my uploads. If anyone wants direction on how to do that for Agent,
email me or ask here.

But if I have a large number of images, I need something like Power
Post v11b, and I can't disable the yEnc encoding. It's hard-wired into
the code. I personally would have no trouble in turning off yEnc, if
that option existed. Maybe if we all wrote the author - assert at
powerpost dot cjb dot net- he would release a new version?


I agree and a FREE newsreader is easy to install. I use XNews and it
does it all.
This back and forth over YEnc is stupid. If you can't decode it, pass on
it. Simple.
JRW

Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to answer my
question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp

Don Pyeatt wrote:
Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to
answer my question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp



Poking my head above the trench for the first time on this, I _prefer_ OE.


I've been using it for years, (since '91 or '92) I've also tried other
clients such as Free Agent, Thunderbird and XNews.


Quite frankly, none of them made my day sufficiently easier, to make it
worth the trouble of learning a new program.


Thunderbird was pretty - but the message folder was over twice the size of
OE's, I have about a Gb of stored messages with OE and about 2.4Gb with
Thunderbird.


Some of these other newsreaders have all the features of OE, but do their
'thing' slightly differently. One of them (I can't remember which)
was difficult or impossible to tag and download messages selectively (I'd
have to download every message on the group, first).



Quite frankly, I still download and install the very occasional new version
of the above list, but nothing I've seen convinces ME that it's worth the
switch.



If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't
happened.


Why is that ? Some of us are boring old farts, that are resistant
to change - a lot of us have seen this all before, this isn't our first
time around the block.



yEnc ? Use it if you want, I personally don't give a crap.
My OE filters out most of it, so it doesn't worry me.


Some of the yEnc files that do slip past the filter (because they're not
labelled in the header) seem to be overly large pictures anyway, HUGE damn
files that should have been resized properly, no matter what encoding method
was used. The only justification offered was that "they would be
even larger in Mime or UUencode"


There are still people on dial-up - their opinion matters. As
technology moves on, more of these people are going over to broadband,
making the one advantage that the yEnc enclave hold very dear, increasingly
redundant. Bandwidth gets faster and cheaper every year - it's been
doing that since my first 1200bps modem and I don't see that trend changing.


My personal opinion, for those who are still reading this far ..... is
that yEnc is a solution in search of a problem and not enough of one for me
to migrate all of my mail and news activity over to a new platform - it's
not always as easy or as important as some people think.



But of course YMMV.


--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

My old machine expiried, and I was eager to to try Vista.
Vista comes with an email/newsreader program - Windows
Mail. I am not a fan of Windows Mail as a newsreader.
Within 20 minutes, I was at the Microsoft Download center
trying to get OE, but OE is apparently not compatable with Vista.
I find the Windows Mail newsreader cumbersome, awkward,
and needlessly time consuming compared to OE.
I am not usually a Microsoft basher, but IMO, they missed
the mark with this program.
Vista has some very nice features, but I would return to
XP and OE in a millisecond.

Just my opinion and POV as a usenet user.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:

Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

Without going into exhaustive detail, Don, that's like asking what MS
Word can do, that Wordpad can't? You have the cart and the horse
backwards. Both Wordpad and OE are targeted to very specific and
narrow uses. OE is an email program with limited newsreading ability.
Similarly, Wordpad may act as an elemental word processor.

I can speak with some authority on this, as my first PC used CP/M, not
MS-DOS, and I remember the dreaded EDLIN, the only text editor
available to early versions of MS-DOS. It was a line-editor. That is,
one could edit text one line at a time. You had to type commands along
the lines of "edit line 3" and then you could perform primitive
editing similar to command-line editing until WinXP.

Then along (finally) comes WordPad, which is a freebie included with
the latest Windows. Considered as a basic word processor (compared to
the 80s stuff) it is excellent. WYSIWYG, different fonts on-screen,
in-place editing on-screen, italics, boldface, etc, etc. After Valdocs
that's exciting!

But... Compared to a real modern word processor -or even a powerful
text editor such as TextPad or EMACS, Wordpad is primitive.

To put it another way, OE to a modern newsreader as MS Paint is to
Adobe Photoshop.

I don't hate OE per se, as an email utility. I loathe it as an example
of how MicroSoft allowed it to become one of the world's worst
vulnerability magnet.

There are free programs which are head and shoulders above what MS
produces for email, newsgroups, and the web. I've mentioned Agent
already. The Mozilla Firefox brower and Mozilla Sunbird email client
are the best of the best. If you want to see what's going to be added
to the next edition of Internet Explorer, just check out what's
current (or old {g}) in Firefox and Sunbird. The Mozilla products are
more secure than equivalent MS products, more stable, more advanced,
and one helluva lot cheaper.

To get back to your original point, I know how to use OE; I just don't
see the point; any more than I see the point of using WordPad as a
word processor. (which reminds me: OpenOffice, anyone?) There are far
more powerful freeware applications out there. OE is comparatively
primitive, and a security nightmare. If I could rip it out by the
roots from WinXP, I would do so in a heartbeat.

I think my earlier analogy still holds: you can use a truck as a
tractor, but that doesn't make it a good idea. OE is not a newsgroup
reader.

I'll also repeat my earlier statment: much of the argument can be
avoided by posting via newgroup reader and not using yEnc. I have no
problem doing that, just to keep the peace. Alas, the best freeware
auto-poster is Power Post v11b, AKA Power Post v11b-yEnc. Are there
any yEnc-hating hackers out there who would be willing to (ahhh...)
"yEnc" that code out of the program to allow standard bulk posting?

Please excuse the pun.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:54:44 GMT, Maple1 wrote:

Agreed though I do not use OE I use Thunderbird and still YENC is a
source of trouble

Dont like being placed into a group just because I hate YENC


Please excuse the repetition, but I want to be clear on this; the
Thunderbird reader doesn't understand yEnc while browsing newsgroups??

Color me shocked... I would have expected them to include that
functionality in a modern program.

"Don Pyeatt" wrote in
:


Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered
question: What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course
decode yEnc without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the
years that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp




Do I don't hate OE I just prefer to use a better program for reading NGs