Garmin 396 -- Maybe I spoke too soon...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:hfrPe.281538$_o.240082@attbi_s71...
Thanks for the feedback Jay. As a "lite" IFR flyer, I couldn't really
justify the cost of a stormscope in my Warrior. I'm still trying to
justify
an autopilot. However, the Garmin 396 simply changes the product
landscape
much like the GNS430 did when it first came out. To get the same
capability
in such a neat package would cost you thousands more.

Since playing with the 396, I have spoken with a friend who has a friend
inside Garmin, and another friend who flies the "Big Iron", and they told
me that:

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and
530s. It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less
expensive. (And Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes. (I'm
not sure I buy that, as I think the Lowrance 2000c and the AvMap were both
selling gangbusters at OSH, but perhaps all the pro-396 buzz since OSH has
killed them?)

- The 396's weather depiction and ease of use far exceed anything
currently available in corporate or airline service -- and costs tens of
thousands less -- so those guys are lining up to buy them, too.

Garmin truly has a winner here, but it's not quite a grand slam. It will
be when they (a) set up the unit in "portrait" mode (which is far more
useful than a "landscape" view for aviation), and (b) when they enlarge
that stupid dinky screen!

I think the screen size is fine. I have it mounted on the yoke and if it was
bigger I think it would get in the way.
XM weather will soon spread to other makes and models, and the price will
drop. I can't wait!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and 530s.
It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less expensive. (And
Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

This does not compute. The 396 is not capable of doing IFR
approaches. Seems to me that the two are aimed at entirely different
markets.

- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes. (I'm not
sure I buy that, as I think the Lowrance 2000c and the AvMap were both
selling gangbusters at OSH, but perhaps all the pro-396 buzz since OSH has
killed them?)

May or may not be valid.

Ron Lee

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and
530s.
It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less expensive.
(And
Garmin actually expected this to happen.)

This does not compute. The 396 is not capable of doing IFR
approaches. Seems to me that the two are aimed at entirely different
markets.

What percentage of 430s/530s are installed in aircraft owned by guys who
actually use them in hard IFR conditions? I'd be willing to bet it's a
pretty small percentage.

On my airport, they have been installed almost exclusively in the "rich
guys" planes -- NONE of whom (to my knowledge) fly hard IFR. (In fact, off
the top of my head I can only name one guy on our airport who flies hard IFR
with his personal aircraft.)

The other reasons I can think of a

- The 396 does weather better than the 430/530.
- If you're buying a $3000 hand-held, you're probably not buying a $5000
panel-mount at the same time
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Despite the myopia concerning 'rich guys', I think you are pretty much
spot on here.

However, I think the price comparison is closer to $2500 handheld and
say $12,000 panel mount.

If your not flying IFR like rich guy Jay, which would you pick? :-)

Jay Honeck wrote:
What percentage of 430s/530s are installed in aircraft owned by guys who
actually use them in hard IFR conditions? I'd be willing to bet it's a
pretty small percentage.

On my airport, they have been installed almost exclusively in the "rich
guys" planes -- NONE of whom (to my knowledge) fly hard IFR. (In fact, off
the top of my head I can only name one guy on our airport who flies hard IFR
with his personal aircraft.)

The other reasons I can think of a

- The 396 does weather better than the 430/530.
- If you're buying a $3000 hand-held, you're probably not buying a $5000
panel-mount at the same time

Jay,

Sorry, I don't buy any of that.

- Sales of the 396 have virtually shut down Garmin's sales of 430s and 530s.
It is simply superior to their in-panel stuff, and far less expensive.

It's not certified, period. And that's a big deal!


- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes.

In their dreams! Why would it? It is more capable than the others, but also WAY
more expensive.

- The 396's weather depiction and ease of use far exceed anything currently
available in corporate or airline service -- and costs tens of thousands
less -- so those guys are lining up to buy them, too.

See point one. I don't buy it.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Maule Driver wrote:
Despite the myopia concerning 'rich guys', I think you are pretty much
spot on here.

However, I think the price comparison is closer to $2500 handheld and
say $12,000 panel mount.

Since the XM weather integration on the 430/530 leaves a bit to be
desired, a more appropriate comparison would, I believe, be a panel
mount figure of around $22K:

430 w/CDI: $10K
EX500: $8K
XM RX: $5K

What I *really* wish Garmin would do is make that $1500 (soon to be
$2000 or more, I'm sure) WAAS upgrade for the 430/530 include a screen
and software upgrade so they could translate this "G1000" style software
presentation and weather / terrain depiction to those units so I
wouldn't have to buy an EX500 or MX20. Now *that* would be worth the
upgrade. Heck, even if they only offered it as a new unit (say the
"Garmin 440/540"), I'd pick one up and relegate the 430 to traffic /
lightning display / 2nd comm duty.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

I was one of the lucky ones who arranged for a friend to buy the 396 at
OSH in late July. I wanted it BEFORE heading out in early Aug on my
family summer vacation flying up and down the East Coast during summer
T-storm season.

The peace of mind and safety margin went up about 100-fold now that I
have this system!! Like some others here, I spent 1 or 2 nites in
unplanned hotel stays in previous years because T storms were popping
up in the vicinity of my route. Ths time I was able to really see what
was in front of me. I had all the info I needed to plow ahead, ask for
a 10 degree change in course to avoid a buildup, or do something more
drastic (like do a 180 or land).

My thumb gets tired from all of the button pushing but that's to be
expected with a Garmin. The XM Wx is great, the display is fine, and
the interface is familiar. Of course there is a danger of getting over
confident and using the system to thread your way between 2 monster
cells. But as long as you keep your head screwed on straight, I think
the system is great. I'll never fly without it again!

--JB

Jay Honeck wrote:

Garmin truly has a winner here, but it's not quite a grand slam. It will be
when they (a) set up the unit in "portrait" mode (which is far more useful
than a "landscape" view for aviation), and (b) when they enlarge that stupid
dinky screen!

I have a 295 which has a slightly smaller screen with the same landscape
orientation. Before that I had a 195, which is portrait. When I first
got the 295, the landscape mode really bugged me. But after I got the
map screen set up the way I wanted, my map was square, so it didn't
matter. The same was true on my 195. Once you add the fields for
waypoint distance/eta, altitude, airspeed, course and track, both
orientations ended up with a square map. Given that, I find the
landscape mode easier to use; i.e. it's easier to look from the map to
the right than it is to look from the map to the top or bottom of the
screen. At least it is for me.

As for the screen size, I don't think I'll be truly happy until I get
get a 15" MFD on my panel, so while I won't argue with you that the
screen size needs to be bigger, I also realize that no handheld will be
big enough for my desire. In spite of that, my 295 screen (1.8 x 3.3
(compared to 2.1 x 3.2 on the 396)) is easy to read and I don't have any
trouble using it even in hardball IFR.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"For crying out loud, Patrick -- sit down... And enough with the
`give me the potatoes or give me death' nonsense."
-- The Far Side, Gary Larson

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
- The 396 has virtually stopped sales of other aviation GPS makes.

In their dreams! Why would it? It is more capable than the others, but
also WAY more expensive.

LOL!

In one post, you argue for buying ANR, because to do otherwise is "going
back to the stone age". But in this thread, you argue that not everyone
needs to spend more money just to get the latest and most capable
technology.

Well, at least ONE of your personalities seems to have a clue. That's a
start...

("Peter Duniho" wrote)
[snip]
Well, at least ONE of your personalities seems to have a clue. That's a
start...


heheheh


Montblack