Parachute Accessory

When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.

Respectfully,
Bullwinkle

On 3/2/07 10:12 PM, in article , "Wayne
Paul" wrote:


wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 2, 11:18 am, "Go" wrote:

-- Snip --

one question - a Benchmade rep stated that the Hook7 was made for
"military and Para jumpers of all kinds". This implies to me that a
hook knife would be carried at least by some parachutists. Is this the
case?

Steve,

I have only needed to use a parachute once. It was back in 1970. Upon
landing in the South China Sea and became entangled in the shroud lines, I
cut myself free using a hook knife. In this case, simply releasing the
harness wasn't sufficient to separate me from the chute.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.

I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn

On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.

I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn


OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.

Respectfully,
Bullwinkle

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that, then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.
I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn


OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.

You read too much into my post.
You said "You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what
you need to survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself."
It sounded as though you meant we should be prepared for any eventuality
we can conceive of. Perhaps I read too much into your post.
I do prepare myself and the glider for a day or so's stay in the
Colorado mountains I fly in. It won't all come with me if I bail out.
The stats are clear, if you survive to the ground, you've survived by
far the most perilous part of the experience. I don't see a small
survival kit and a hook knife on the harness as unreasonable, but beyond
that I feel there are better places to spend safety dollars. E.g. more
training time, transponder, ELT.

Shawn

On 3/3/07 8:38 PM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that,
then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine
his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.
I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn


OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.

You read too much into my post.
You said "You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what
you need to survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself."
It sounded as though you meant we should be prepared for any eventuality
we can conceive of. Perhaps I read too much into your post.
I do prepare myself and the glider for a day or so's stay in the
Colorado mountains I fly in. It won't all come with me if I bail out.
The stats are clear, if you survive to the ground, you've survived by
far the most perilous part of the experience. I don't see a small
survival kit and a hook knife on the harness as unreasonable, but beyond
that I feel there are better places to spend safety dollars. E.g. more
training time, transponder, ELT.

Shawn

Shawn,

I apologize for misunderstanding: thought you were saying to ignore survival
in favor of accident prevention. My bad, and I'm sorry.

I have a two tier survival strategy.
1) I wear a survival vest under my parachute (in the military I used to
have one of these on all the time, so I am used to the concept), packed with
what I consider either "essentials" or very small, lightweight things that I
would want in any circumstance. Working on getting a camelback as part of
that rig, without compromising the ability of the chute to open (obviously,
on the front somewhere).
2) On board the aircraft, but not attached to me (i.e., won't go with me
during the jump), is additional water and other things I might want in the
likely chance that the aircraft fuselage is available to me after the dust
settles. Obviously, all that is available in a pure landout (no chute use).

When I said that you have to consider a worst case scenario, I meant exactly
that: CONSIDER it, and then you have to decide if you want to cover all
those possibilities. What risks are worth the effort, in other words. You
may decide that it is possible that you will have to defend yourself against
grizzly bears, but you may also decide not to take a firearm capable of that
with you (because the risk is small but the size and weight are too great.
But you've considered it.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. Good luck out there in Colorado.
Bullwinkle

Look at master rigger Allen Silver's web site for a small parachute
accessory called a SMAK pack which holds a hook knive, mirror, fire
starter and a whistle. $45. The hook knife is on a landyard so it
doesn't get away from you at a critical or inopportune moment. The
whole shebang is small and snaps to a part of the harness.

http://silverparachutesales.com/wst_page12.html

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 8:38 PM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
On 3/3/07 11:30 AM, in article ,
"Shawn" wrote:

Bullwinkle wrote:
When I was in military survival training, they showed us the picture of a
guy who died because he didn't have his hook knife.

Landed in a tree, ended up hanging upside down, wrapped up in shroud lines.
Had his hook knife with him, but had not secured it in the survival knife
pocket of his flight suit with the supplied cord. He pulled it out, dropped
it, couldn't reach it on the ground (just a few inches too far), and died
before he could be rescued.

Bill Daniels blithely speaks in a similar thread about being mostly worried
about where to go for dinner and a beer: if he's not joking about that,
then
his level of denial is almost pathological. He badly needs to re-examine
his
assumptions.

You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what you need to
survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself.

For me, I've given a lot of thought to the topic, and hope I'm prepared.
I can think of a worse worst case scenario than that, given a little
time. Probably would require full body armor and close air support to
survive. ;-)
Avoiding the need to hit the silk by having enough flight time,water and
pee bags in the cockpit is by far the best preparation IMNSHO.


Shawn

OK: if "just don't have the accident in the first place" works for you,
great.

I'm just paranoid enough to want to be prepared for an overnight stay in the
boonies, potentially with injuries, and without access to the aircraft
wreckage. Therefore, survival essentials will go with me if I have to jump
(a course of action that I, too, will try to avoid through proper
preparation and training).

Agree that training, experience, and hydration are important preventive
measures, to which I pay close attention. But how will all the training in
the world keep you or me from being overrun from the rear by a clueless
Cessna driver, or a NetJets pilot letting down into Reno? Sometimes you just
can't prevent bad things from happening.

Shawn, if you're so sure you can avoid using it, why not fly this season
without a parachute?

Different strokes for different folks.
You read too much into my post.
You said "You've got to think worst case scenario, and then decide what
you need to survive until you can get rescued or rescue yourself."
It sounded as though you meant we should be prepared for any eventuality
we can conceive of. Perhaps I read too much into your post.
I do prepare myself and the glider for a day or so's stay in the
Colorado mountains I fly in. It won't all come with me if I bail out.
The stats are clear, if you survive to the ground, you've survived by
far the most perilous part of the experience. I don't see a small
survival kit and a hook knife on the harness as unreasonable, but beyond
that I feel there are better places to spend safety dollars. E.g. more
training time, transponder, ELT.

Shawn

Shawn,

I apologize for misunderstanding: thought you were saying to ignore survival
in favor of accident prevention. My bad, and I'm sorry.

I have a two tier survival strategy.
1) I wear a survival vest under my parachute (in the military I used to
have one of these on all the time, so I am used to the concept), packed with
what I consider either "essentials" or very small, lightweight things that I
would want in any circumstance. Working on getting a camelback as part of
that rig, without compromising the ability of the chute to open (obviously,
on the front somewhere).
2) On board the aircraft, but not attached to me (i.e., won't go with me
during the jump), is additional water and other things I might want in the
likely chance that the aircraft fuselage is available to me after the dust
settles. Obviously, all that is available in a pure landout (no chute use).

When I said that you have to consider a worst case scenario, I meant exactly
that: CONSIDER it, and then you have to decide if you want to cover all
those possibilities. What risks are worth the effort, in other words. You
may decide that it is possible that you will have to defend yourself against
grizzly bears, but you may also decide not to take a firearm capable of that
with you (because the risk is small but the size and weight are too great.
But you've considered it.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. Good luck out there in Colorado.
Bullwinkle

No offense taken. You remind me I have a photographers vest I got years
ago for carrying things in the cockpit when I flew club ships. Now that
I don't have my own glider any more (for now), I'll have to get it back
out and re-equip it.
Think I'll leave the shot gun at home though ;-)


Shawn

On 1 Mar 2007 21:06:55 -0800, wrote:

I recently purchased a hook knife to use while paragliding but I also
intend to carry it when wearing my parachute in the sailplane. This
will allow a chance of cutting free from the parachute after landing
in extreme conditions. Some hook knives are better than others and I
have learned that the hook knife of choice is made by Benchmade Knife
Company, www.benchmade.com . I purchased the Hook7 but they make other
hook knife designs that would work. I heard that hook knives that have
double razor type blades can jam. The Hook7 has a single cutting edge
that cannot be jammed.
Steve





Who manufactures The Delta Wing type Emergency chutes? Are they
readily available? THNX 1RW

On Mar 5, 12:21 am, "Ron (RW)" wrote:
On 1 Mar 2007 21:06:55 -0800, wrote:

I recently purchased a hook knife to use while paragliding but I also
intend to carry it when wearing my parachute in the sailplane. This
will allow a chance of cutting free from the parachute after landing
in extreme conditions. Some hook knives are better than others and I
have learned that the hook knife of choice is made by Benchmade Knife
Company,www.benchmade.com. I purchased the Hook7 but they make other
hook knife designs that would work. I heard that hook knives that have
double razor type blades can jam. The Hook7 has a single cutting edge
that cannot be jammed.
Steve

Who manufactures The Delta Wing type Emergency chutes? Are they
readily available? THNX 1RW

Rigging Innovations. There are two versions(both square parachutes)
depending on the pilots experience/training with modern parachutes.
http://www.rigginginnovations.com/aviator.htm

I agree and did not say you shouldn't carry one, just that it isn't
the best to use in a high wind landing. It can be very handy indeed in
a tree or water landing as others have posted. Also, parachute
suspension lines are great for all sorts of things in a survival
environment, if you have a way to cut them! Of course a rock or two
would work as well. I don't think you could gut a rabbit with a hook
knife though!

I traded (comshawed) for my first parachute with a 20lb can of coffee
at the loft at North Island Naval Air Station about 33 years ago. I
still use the 550 suspension lines for stuff.

You can get very inexpensive hook knives in a velcro pouch at your
local drop zone.

John
1PD/GO

Another thought: When was the last time you did a complete pin check
on your parachute rig guys? That should be part of your preflight.


'I understand what you're saying, Go, and I am prepared to collapse
the
canopy if and when I ever have to use it. I also realize that the
hook
knife probably won't save things if they ever get that dire. But, to
me, it's kind of like wearing a parachute in the first place. You
wouldn't want to need one and not have one. Therefore, since I
already
have the hook knife, I might as well carry it. Besides, if I ever
land
out in the boonies, it might be handy in snagging dinner! I do have
one question - a Benchmade rep stated that the Hook7 was made for
"military and Para jumpers of all kinds". This implies to me that a
hook knife would be carried at least by some parachutists. Is this
the
case?
Steve '