dream time

I'd add the new 18m Jonkers JS-1 Revelation to that list. It'll come
as a jet sustainer and conventional self launcher as well, it would
definitely be on my short list. The Antares now comes in a dedicated
18m version as well, but only with a conventional Solo sustainer
engine as option. If I understand it correctly the 304S Shark comes
with a jet self launch option (not jet sustainer) and a conventional
Solo based sustainer option.

Markus

304S also has the typical power plants for self launch if anyone wants
them....same as S-H, AS or DG.....
Jet is far more interesting, likely more reliable than any of the other
options.....and has plenty of power for self launching but needs a boost to
get initial movement.(short auto tow)...will not be certified therefore as a
self launcher
tim

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Yiaki.6226$t05.3592@trndny09...
bagmaker wrote:
OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
fire up the dreams machine.

What ship, down to 3 options-

ASH26E
304S with Jet sustainer
Antares 20E

Which is your choice and why?

What kind of flying do you hope to do?

If it's safaris, that might favor the ASH26E, because the 304S sustainer
needs a tow and the Antares needs electricity and has much more limited
motoring range.

If most of your flying is where and when a tow is readily available, that
would favor the lighter, simpler, cheaper sustainer.

If it's mostly from an airport with access to electricity and long powered
retrieves aren't important, that would favor the Antares.

Contest flying? The classes you can fly in will be determined by the
glider you choose; e.g., no 18 M if you get the Antares.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

"Tim Mara" wrote in message
...
304S also has the typical power plants for self launch if anyone wants
them....same as S-H, AS or DG.....
Jet is far more interesting, likely more reliable than any of the other
options.....and has plenty of power for self launching but needs a boost
to get initial movement.(short auto tow)...will not be certified therefore
as a self launcher
tim

A return to bungee launch?

wow! Hit a sweet spot here!

Ok, I dont know why the Ventus isnt on the list, its a dream list and not a dream ship (reaching for flame suit)
Cost is an issue with the Antares, but hey ,we are dreaming.
Safari style touring is the aim, I cant imagine too much trouble in finding a AC socket every couple of days would be a struggle on any safari, even if it means U Hiring a genset on the field. 20m is restrictive for competition, having to compete with open class, although if it handles as well as told, should be good. How is it in light conditions with the "permanent" higher wing loading?
I would admit the JS1 Revelation to be near the hit list, although it looks a tad tight cockpit wise and both it and the company remain unproven.
Both the JS1 and the shark 304 would be a great thing jet assisted, I cant wait for that!

What other options do we come up with for assisting the assist for self launch?
Electric wheel motor?
Clockspring wheel? (maybe it can be wound up!!!)


thanks in advance

bagger

Yes Mal, you can fly it

On Jul 8, 3:14 am, bagmaker
wrote:
OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
fire up the dreams machine.

What ship, down to 3 options-

ASH26E
304S with Jet sustainer
Antares 20E

Which is your choice and why?

bagger

--
bagmaker

i need some turbine time so its the 304S for me

"bagmaker" wrote in message
...

OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
fire up the dreams machine.

What ship, down to 3 options-

ASH26E
304S with Jet sustainer
Antares 20E

Which is your choice and why?

bagger
--
bagmaker

Second Eric Greenwell's response and add:

Of the 3 ships you list, I'd pick either the 20E or ASH26E depending on the
mission.

I was very impressed with the engineering and thought that went into the
Antares when I saw Dave's ship at the SSA convention. I've owned an ASH26E
for almost 5 years and am delighted with it. The Wankel power plant is
turbine smooth and has been 100% reliable, no breakdowns, failure to start,
or overheating. I made the decision to buy the 26E after discussing build
quality with Larry Mansberger and others who maintain and work on gliders.

bumper

--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
Quiet Vent and MKII Yaw String

The reason the Ventus, ASG variants and similar craft are not on a dream list (of mine) is the engine.
2 strokes should be restricted to lawn mowers, simple as that.
The simplicity, weight and size of a turbine is the main drawcard, noise and low-speed (self-launch) power are the downers.
The Antares will improve both in pricing and electrical complexity/longevity if the company is supported - sales would indicate it will be- and we can all see that self-launch will be the way to fly eventually.


still dreaming..............


bagger

bagmaker wrote:
wow! Hit a sweet spot here!

Ok, I dont know why the Ventus isnt on the list, its a dream list and
not a dream ship (reaching for flame suit)
Cost is an issue with the Antares, but hey ,we are dreaming.
Safari style touring is the aim, I cant imagine too much trouble in
finding a AC socket every couple of days would be a struggle on any
safari, even if it means U Hiring a genset on the field. 20m is
restrictive for competition, having to compete with open class,
although if it handles as well as told, should be good. How is it in
light conditions with the "permanent" higher wing loading?
I would admit the JS1 Revelation to be near the hit list, although it
looks a tad tight cockpit wise and both it and the company remain
unproven.
Jonker Company has been around for years, and is very slick. Uys and Attie run a
tight ship, as well as building a not so tight ship. I fit, at 1.86m and 110kg.
So -as for a tight cockpit - that would be "negative mate" if you saw the guys
with built in ballast who have flown and ordered the JS1...
Performance wise it is also up with the rest. The self launcher is not available
yet though all hulls are being built with the necessary structure to allow retrofit.

There will apparently be at least one, probably two JS1s at the GP in Omarama -
hop over and take a personal look.

Both the JS1 and the shark 304 would be a great thing jet assisted, I
cant wait for that!

What other options do we come up with for assisting the assist for self
launch?
Electric wheel motor?
Clockspring wheel? (maybe it can be wound up!!!)


thanks in advance

bagger

Yes Mal, you can fly it

Talking dreams -

Assuming that we are talking a SLMG.

I wonder whether it is not a better idea to go for a two seat self-launcher. Any
experiences?

Pro -
you can take more stuff as baggage if you are alone.
You can take company with if you want to.
The performance should be similar to similar wingspan single seaters.

Con -
Heavier, and more expensive.
More instruments, parachutes etc to maintain.
Harder to sell?
People will pester you about the "wasted" seat when you want to fly alone.

Thoughts?

bagmaker wrote:
wow! Hit a sweet spot here!

Ok, I dont know why the Ventus isnt on the list, its a dream list and
not a dream ship (reaching for flame suit)
Cost is an issue with the Antares, but hey ,we are dreaming.
Safari style touring is the aim, I cant imagine too much trouble in
finding a AC socket every couple of days would be a struggle on any
safari, even if it means U Hiring a genset on the field. 20m is
restrictive for competition, having to compete with open class,
although if it handles as well as told, should be good. How is it in
light conditions with the "permanent" higher wing loading?
I would admit the JS1 Revelation to be near the hit list, although it
looks a tad tight cockpit wise and both it and the company remain
unproven.
Both the JS1 and the shark 304 would be a great thing jet assisted, I
cant wait for that!

What other options do we come up with for assisting the assist for self
launch?
Electric wheel motor?
Clockspring wheel? (maybe it can be wound up!!!)


thanks in advance

bagger

Yes Mal, you can fly it

I dont know why a 2 seater doesnt appeal to me, it just doesnt! The new AS ship sounds like an updated ASH25 which may make it to a dream list although I believe only a single seater does it for me.

The JS1 at Jonkers needs more information out there, listing is deferred until later.

Now a question between the two front runners-
Is the Antares more than twice the aircraft than a 304 shark?
For $100k you could throw a lot of beer towards a lot of wing runners to get you moving, less than 5 points of glide slope between them AND a metre less wingspan to annoy you.

I suppose it is like comparing a daewoo to a BMW, some may point out they both have an engine, 4 wheels and a stereo, why pay the huge price difference? We glider pilots are notoriosly tight with our dollars,

Got to be good sales people over at Lange....



bagger